English Nationals 2013

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Smiling Sop, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Smiling Sop

    Smiling Sop New Member

    Is anybody able to confirm the line up of bands for this contest? Thanks Alister
  2. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    This was the provisional line-up as announced in February, although Carlton Main have withdrawn due to health issues affecting players, and I think Desford as well, although I'm not sure where I read about that.

    Black Dyke
    (Carlton Main Frickley Colliery)
    Desford Colliery ?
    Hammonds Saltaire
    Reg Vardy
    Virtuosi GUS
  3. mikey.smithy

    mikey.smithy Member

    Yes I think you are correct, although Im not sure whether it was publicised regarding Desford. My understanding is that there a 6 bands left maximum. I'm not sure just how viable it is at this point, which is a shame but I think some fairly quick decisions need to be made.
  4. Phil Green

    Phil Green Supporting Member

    It's a real shame that the English European qualifying event is now down to one top band going (with some very good bands too I'd just add!). If only the powers that be had let the All England Masters be the event to provide the English band, they would have still had the best bands going there and then we'd have had one really great contest instead of two pretty hopeless ones.
  5. euphoria

    euphoria Member

    It's a shame that some of the big names in banding such as Fodens, Brighouse, Grimethorpe and Leyland have chosen to give this contest a miss. Does anyone know if their reasons for not attending is due to the fact that it is rather costly to attend the European Championships (although this year should be different, as next years Europeans are in Perth)?

  6. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I'm not up to speed on the history of this suggestion. It's currently the All England International Masters, attracting a number of overseas and UK non-English entrants. According to BBR, it adopted the "International" tag for the May 2005 contest, and the English Nationals first ran in July 2006. Your words suggest that there was a window of time when matters were under discussion when the idea that the Masters could be the English qualifier was in play. But the timings are confusing, with the International Masters predating the English National by a year.
  7. tsawyer

    tsawyer Member

    http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/2005/art479.asp should help give some background.
  8. Statto

    Statto Member

    Don't know for certain, but the gist of it seemed to be that the All England Masters was (and is) an invitation event but the European Championship required its entrants to come via a nationally organised event, run by a national association. This explains (?) why prior to the English National, the English representative was the highest placed English band from the National Final.

    Seems to me that the very obvious solution was always for Biggs/Franklin to invite the top 2 (say) from each of the 6 English area contests, with the field then being filled up with other top English bands on an invitation basis. That would have ensured that an English band could start on the bottom rung of the ladder and progress all the way through the area structure and eventually qualify for the European. Indeed, I recall such a proposal being mentioned in BBW magazine at least a decade ago and long before the English National came on the scene.

    A European qualifying contest minus almost all of the top English bands is farcical.
  9. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the link and explanation. What a mess!
  10. Stracathro

    Stracathro Member

    The other thing is that it makes a complete mockery of any Brass Band Rankings system (4BR/BBW etc). The amount of points they dole out for winning the English Nationals or European Champs basically gives bands that choose to attend these events a monopoly on the top spots.

  11. Statto

    Statto Member

    Can't really speak for the 4br system, but the points awarded for the English National under the brassstats/BBW system is directly related to the 'strength of field', i.e. the ranking of the competing bands at the time of the contest. The points on offer in the early years, particularly 2007-2009, were almost (but not quite) on a par with the National but clearly this year's line-up will not benefit to the same extent. For example, the 2009 contest included 11 of the top 15 English bands at that time. This year? Only 3 of the top 15! The winning band received 30 ranking points in 2009, but only 20 last year, and possibly even less this year. By way of comaprison, the National and British Open winners receive 40 points.

    I think that anyone attending the European in recent years would agree that the competing bands are very much entitled to hold down the 'top spots', whatever rankings system you choose! The winning band in the European generally receives 30 points.

    For fellow stattos, see also this :)
  12. ophicliede

    ophicliede Member

    One contest too many, hardly England's best!!!!!
  13. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Latest update, courtesy of 4br:

    Black Dyke (Dr Nicholas Childs)
    Hammonds Saltaire (Morgan Griffiths)
    Hepworth (Michael Fowles)
    Milnrow (Marieka Gray)
    Pemberton Old (TBA)
    Redbridge (Jeremy Wise)
    Reg Vardy (Russell Gray)
    Virtuosi GUS (John Berryman)
  14. Gorgie boy

    Gorgie boy Member

    So England picks its representative for the Europeans next year from a contest featuring 8 bands? Scotland, a country with a tenth of the population of Scotland, picks its rep following a contest featuring 10 bands, Wales probably round about the same number.

    Doesn't seem right somehow. A sorry mess?
  15. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    No disrespect to the other bands , but there's only one big fish in that little pond.

    ~ Mr Wilx
  16. Milnrow to win! First nationals, first open... follow the pattern
  17. JPC

    JPC New Member

    Think I'll save the £15.00 to listen and not bother going, looks like a load of pants to be honest.
  18. Stracathro

    Stracathro Member

    So of the 7 English Bands in the World Top 10 (4br - apols to Statto!), 1 will be attending the supposed national championships!

    My issue isn't really with the quality of the English National contest, it's the extent that it devalues the Europeans. What does it say about that contest if only 1 of those 7 bands wants to/is able to attend?! I've said this on here before but I really find it hard to get excited about the European Champs, a contest that should be the pinnacle of banding in Europe, when none of the top bands are interested! I know that people might come back and say that some bands can't afford to go but I can't accept that 6/7 of the richest bands in England can't afford it. If I'm wrong, then surely the European Champs has big problems. All I hear from the Banding media is what a great event it is but, whilst the quality of playing might be superb, it really can't be called a true contest of the best bands in Europe.
  19. 08cbinns

    08cbinns Member

    Dont think we can afford the Europeans aswell!!
  20. kennywenny

    kennywenny Member

    :) :clap:

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