English Nationals 2010

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Yorkshirebandie, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. Yorkshirebandie

    Yorkshirebandie New Member

    As an avid supporter of all Yorkshire bands am I the only one who has noticed that the list of invited bands to this contest appears to have missed out Hammonds Saltaire and invited at least a couple of bands, including at least one from Lancashire :frown:, who have never been above them in the rankings which were apparently used to decide on invitees.

    From 4BR


    The British Federation of Brass Bands has also confirmed the details of the bands they hope will accept the invitions issued to them to compete in the contest.

    The winners will be nominated as English representatives for the 2011 European Championship in Switzerland.


    The bands who have received an invite are the 2009 Regional Championship winners plus the highest ranked bands in the 4BR/World of Brass Rankings.


    4BR understands that the list may well be amended depending on whether or not the bands accept the invitations issued, and on the result of the 2010 European Championship in Linz, where Black Dyke will compete as English representative next year.

    Invited bands:

    Rothwell Temperance (Yorkshire)
    Desford (Midlands)
    Foden's (North West)
    Camborne (West of England)
    Redbridge (London & SC)
    EYMS (North of England)
    Brighouse & Rastrick (Yorkshire)���������������
    Carlton Main Frickley Colliery (Yorkshire)�����
    Fairey (North West)
    Grimethorpe (Yorkshire)��������������������
    Hepworth Cookson Homes (Yorkshire)���������������
    Leyland (North West)
    Flowers (West of England)�����
    Black Dyke (Yorkshire)������������������������������
    Virtuosi GUS (Midlands)
    Wingates (North West):frown:
  2. bassinthebathroom

    bassinthebathroom Active Member

    Depends which ranking scheme you're looking at I guess!
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2009
  3. Ali

    Ali Member

    Could be where they finished up over the last couple of years as well. Just a guess. And anyway, I'm sure Wingates where there last year so no suprise that they are back.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2009
  4. bassinthebathroom

    bassinthebathroom Active Member

    OK, I've just read that again, and have learnt the error of my ways; trying to take a phone call, read and type at the same time!
    It looks like you have a point there, perhaps the non-invite of Hammonds is to do with their loss of championship status, although this seems a little unfair given that nothing about top section bands is mentioned, as far as I know, in their rules!
  5. Mrs Fruity

    Mrs Fruity Member

    As far as I know, it's the area winners plus the remaining top ranked English bands up to a certain number. But I stand to be corrected. Fire away...
  6. Mrs Fruity

    Mrs Fruity Member

    Oops should have read the opening post. Hush my mouth. ...and I always tell the kids at school to read carefully before they answer :oops:
  7. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    It is a championship contest. End of. Thats why they arent there. Maybe if they gain promotion after the area (which is highly likely given their recent form) they will return in 2011.
  8. defnotsimon

    defnotsimon Member

    Given the amount of stick that this contest has suffered in the past its not surprising that they havent invited Hammonds. Inviting only Championship section bands does certainly give the contest more gravitas.
  9. Fedman

    Fedman Member

    Invitation to the ENBBC is clear, and included in the rules which can be read on the BFBB website. The basis of the invitations is to bring together the very best bands in England. Obviously they can only be selected at a particular point in time but this is to reflect the achievements these bands have made at that time.

    The rules state:
    English bands achieving the highest placing in the Championship Section in each of the six English
    Regional Contests held in the proceeding year. If a Regional Winner declines the invitation a place will be offered to the ‘Second Placed’ band of the same Region. Further invitations will be sent to the 10 highest ranked English bands (other than the 6 regional winners) from The World of Brass ranking system, at a date to be decided by the Contest management.

    Hope that explains the selection process.
  10. Yorkshirebandie

    Yorkshirebandie New Member

    That's what I'd seen also and was why I started the thread. It seemed to me that as there was no stipulation of Champ bands only and that a number of the bands publically invited had neither won their area or were above them in the rankings that they should have been invited. Anyway there are still plenty of Yorkshire bands there to support to victory.
  11. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. Interesting start to a post. However, despite the parochial nature of the comment, you have a fair point. This is how things stand at the moment - rankings are from the 4BR/WOB system as of this morning, 27 November.

    Bands invited automatically as Area Winners:

    Rothwell Temperance (Yorkshire Winners)
    Desford (Midlands Winners)
    Foden's (North West Winners)
    Camborne (West of England Winners)
    Redbridge (London & SC Winners)
    EYMS (North of England Winners)

    Bands invited on the basis of rankings position:

    Black Dyke (2nd in Ranking - & reigning champion)
    Grimethorpe (4th in rankings)
    Brighouse & Rastrick (5th in rankings)
    Leyland (6th in rankings)
    Carlton Main Frickley Colliery (10th in rankings)
    Fairey (11th in rankings)
    Hepworth Cookson Homes (12th in rankings)
    Flowers (22nd in rankings)
    Virtuosi GUS (25th in rankings)
    Wingates (26th in rankings)

    As of this morning Hammonds are 21st in the rankings (higher than Flowers, GUS and Wingates), and therefore by the strict rules of entry could certainly consider themselves a bit hard done by. However, I reckon even they would agree that their current ranking place is somewhat anomalous, and is based largely on the tremendous achievements a few years ago under the YBS name. I can't imagine that anyone could successfully argue that the standard of competition would be improved by kicking top section Wingates out and replacing them with (currently) 1st section Hammonds.

    Does seem odd to have an entry system and then ignore it if you don't like the bands that it throws into the mix, though. If they're going to have a "wildcard" system, or automatically exclude any bands who lose their Championship status, that's fair enough and probably good for the standard of the contest, but that ought to be explained more clearly. Under the criteria explained by Fedman above, HS ought to have been invited.
  12. Ali

    Ali Member

    Your right but as I said in my earlier post, it may be due to the HS's final positions of late at the contest. There may yet be hope though. As I understand it, grimey may be invited but will most probably decline their invite. From what I've heard, they have no intrest in the contest or the loss of the £30,000 odd grand they lost attending the euros last time around. However, I have been proved wrong before.
  13. Yorkshirebandie

    Yorkshirebandie New Member

    I've just looked on 4br results and even on recent results it would seem a bit harsh given that at the Open they finished ahead of GUS, Rothwell and Carlton Main.
  14. Columbo

    Columbo Member

    Bearing in mind I've come in half way through, what is the £30,000 mentioned here in relation to please?
  15. Ali

    Ali Member

    But it's not about contest results over the year. It's about the one contest. I'm fairly sure they got a poor result last year but I don't know about the year before. If a band keeps getting a poor result surely it's only fair to give other high ranking bands a shot? They do it for the bottom contest at the spring festival do they not? Don't think I hold anything against HS because I don't. If I remember rightly, there were grumbles at this years contest because imps were invited to take part but not a single midlands band were.
  16. Ali

    Ali Member

    the cost on average of attending the euros in Scandinavia.
  17. Columbo

    Columbo Member

    clucking bells!!
  18. Ali

    Ali Member

    That's why a lot of bands turn down the invite. It costs far too much to go. Better to come 2nd! Money inthe coffers and not have to worry about trying to find the money to go and keep the band afloat. That's part of the reason why the band who finished 5th in Scotland at the areas are going this year and not the winners! Shocking eh?
  19. Columbo

    Columbo Member

    Indeed! And my 500th Post!
  20. 3rdcornetsolo

    3rdcornetsolo Member

    I have to say I am disappointed that Hammonds are not invited to compete. As detailed above the band ranks higher in both rankings than Flowers, GUS and Wingates.

    Last year they finished 11th (above Redbridge who get an invite this year) and in 2008 placed higher than Carlton and Redbridge (who both have invites again).

    If it is the case that the competition is ONLY for Championship Section bands then it seems a shame as the contest may not feature the best bands available... and to me will be cheaper for not doing!