Doing away with registration

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Anno Draconis, Jan 3, 2006.

?

Should we do away with registration?

Poll closed Jan 24, 2006.
  1. Yes, it's pointless, bin it

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  2. Yes, but keep it for promotion/relegation contests only

    13 vote(s)
    23.2%
  3. No! Anarchy (and cheating) will become endemic.

    33 vote(s)
    58.9%
  1. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    One of my personal hobby horses in banding is registration, in my opinion an archaic and bureaucratic process that has no purpose but creates a load of hassle and expense for bands and contest organisers. In Roger's recent "perfect contest" thread (see here) I suggested doing away with it, and one correspondent suggested that this would lead to championship section players/bands sneaking into 4th section contests to win them all the time.

    I don't think this would happen, and I'm fairly sure most players who enter contests do so to play against (and preferably beat) players who are as good, or better than themselves. So my questions are these: If the banding movement did away with registration, would you (or your band) immediately try to get into contests at lower levels just to win a few pots? Do you think some players might prefer this? Or would you still be aiming at the better bands? Should it be retained for those contests which have "promotion/relegation" issues, like the area/nationals?

    (puts head firmly back below parapet...)
     
  2. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    Not all contests have registration required anyway.... well, I know of one, maybe two, anyway.... ha...

    But, I think it would be a bad idea to get rid of the registration system- it's there for a good reason, no matter what a faff things can get.... not that it's going anywhere... is it.... ;-)
     
  3. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    I can see problems with doing away with registration, there will be rumours that certain bands had ringers in and there will be no way to prove or disprove it. An innocent may have to spend the weeks after a contest trying to clear up any such rumours leaving a taint on their performance
    If the Contest organisers are well prepared then I can't see what the problem is, the contests I did this year wouldn't have gone any slicker if there had been no registration
     
  4. sugarandspice

    sugarandspice Active Member

    I don't like the registration photos. can we do away with them?! Everyone always laughs at mine, admitidly cos it was taken when i was 11. i have a new photo now which is no better, but was horrified to go home and find my old band registration photo in the kitchen of the Conductors pub, as part of a cutest baby competion!

    Do we really need to have them?!
     
  5. persins

    persins Member

    I agree, Roy!
    I think that when handled properly, registration is not one of the fundamental issues with contesting. I think it actually allows many more people to be involved with banding as it means that you can't just bring in the same ringers to strengthen weaker sections. It also stops the glory hunters from just swapping from band to band just for specific contests and therefore ruining the stability of the band.
    The issue of deps would perhaps be more contentious as this is where the grey area lies. Should there be a standard situation across all contests over number of deps?
    Surely it is the confusion as to who you can borrow for what contest that causes more of the headaches?

    Simon
     
  6. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    Ah but it was cute lol
    It very easy to update registration cards you just need to give your contest secretry a kick up the bum!
     
  7. sugarandspice

    sugarandspice Active Member

    :icon_razz: you were probably in the band when the photo was taken!

    I do have issues with the cards on the contest day tho, i never have enough hands to hold everything and always end up losing it!

    More pressing issue, how do you decide who should go on stage to arrange the chairs?!........:icon_razz: :icon_biggrin:
     
  8. persins

    persins Member

    Easy way to get out of it, just pretend to be really nervous and say that you can't stray too far from the toilet til the last possible moment!!

    Or just get the longest serving member of the section to do it as they obviously know the set up better!

    (or just get Sam to do it)!
     
  9. sugarandspice

    sugarandspice Active Member

    It's ok, it was a crack at Mr Taylor! :) Think he should explain tho!
     
  10. dyl

    dyl Active Member

    Topic please folks!

    (Remember your Little Britain thread Kelly? ;) )
     
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  12. sugarandspice

    sugarandspice Active Member

    Its related to contesting!!
     
  13. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    Yes yes, i know, never ask the band drunk to set the chairs out even if he is one of the experienced members because otherwise you get a confused band walking onstage going to where their chairs ought to be and finding they are not. (I've never offered to do it since)

    If we got rid of registration cards how would we be able to look back on our past contest. How would our older members of the band be able to show off thier experience with a registration card that has 20 odd pages stuck into it.

    I like looking at "past" contests in my card and look at the registration card as a kind of log-book as well as a form of identity to get on stage
     
  14. sugarandspice

    sugarandspice Active Member

    Seriously tho, don't think the system is that bad really? every other organisation has some form of system to say which "team" you belong to, this is just the same?

    It was a lot of rerposibility for the person looking after the cards tho, ours lost sleep over it sometimes! Will they let you on stage if you dont have your card?
     
  15. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

     
  16. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Why do we all worry so much about ringers, cheats etc etc - just look at the number of people who move bands just before the areas and finals already! - registration isn't stopping anyone playing where they like in fact, it does the reverse and stops people from playing on occasions when they had simply faulen foul of a missed date or similar. (I was on the reg desk at the London region a few years ago when a band had to leave someone out because their card wasn't stamped for the right year - pointless!)
    So many contests also have day transfers now too.

    I have been saying for years we should scrap this archaic system - there is absolutely no proof at all that anarchy will follow.

    And if you really must insist on keeping it, then why have an annual renewal? My passport is valid for 10 yrs - I don't have to pay every year to retain it. Registration should not be seen as an income stream either.
    (SCABA adopted a much more sensible approach on this with cards being renewed now every 5 years rather than annually).

    I noted an advert here on tMp recently - a band looking to strengthen their line up for the next contest. Where was their advert to strengthen it for the next village fete they are due to play at?

    Somone mentioned deps as opposed to "ringers" - what's the difference? They would both be filling an otherwise empty chair but one seems to be acceptable and the other not.

    And finally, if you want a logbook of which contests you attend, then create a logbook - that's not what the registration system was originally designed to do and is not a valid justification for keeping it.

    ps: I forgot to deal with one other point:

    Registration has nothing to do with grading - removing the player registration would not allow a band to enter lower sections on a pot hunting exercise. Regional/National and most local associations have a grading process separate to the player registration.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2006
  17. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Interesting point, I hadn't thought of that. I too am quite proud of my old registration card which I got when I was 13 and lasted me for 10 years - it's got 2 Albert Hall stamps in it so I won't be throwing it away any time soon!

    However, I'm not sure I accept that the banding world is full of potential criminals waiting for the rules to be relaxed so that the ranks of Blogsworth Colliery can be swollen with Dyke or Fodens players. I know there was a lot of sharp practice 30-40 years ago, but prize money was relatively much higher then and in the heyday of the great works bands there was more money in banding to pay for deps/ringers. I just don't think that the financial incentive would be there anymore.
     
  18. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Anyone wish to join Arran Brass for their next village fete? :) :)

    I'm joking! But it does highlight one 'extreme' area of banding. We wish to find a couple of percussionists, and we're struggling to find more than one that 'reads'. I'm trying to teach a number of band members not to rely on writing in fingerings/slide positions for their notes, teaching them fingerings they never knew (and I'm talking some basic fingering here) etc.


    .......

    But I love the challenge! :)
     
  19. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I personally would like to see the registration periods along the lines of the registration used in certain team sports. For example, when you're registered to a band, you can ONLY play for that band.

    Certain players have been known, while never changing their allegiances for british domestic brass banding, to register with bands abroad for european, or foreign domestic competitions. Naming no names, but I've first hand experience of it.

    The problem is, anything of this nature would be almost unenforcible. Like any amateur pursuit it relies on the honesty of those involved.

    The registry system seems fine as it is. If it were removed, a single player at an area contest, for example, could play for nearly every band as the piece is always the same. How much would a band's depping budget stretch to just to get that fiendish euphonium cadenza or tricky cornet solo in? You'd wind up with the same few players playing it all day, and therefore the prizes divided amongst those who could pay the most.

    I'd rather lose fair and square playing my own part than win like that.
     
  20. lausonbass

    lausonbass Member

    this is a very difficult subject, i agree with registration cos it ... well it makes sense, but well it get confusing when it get to bands borrowing players for contests etc, i got asked to play for a 4th section band for a recent contest but had to turn them down cos i play for a 1st section band. i don't get why bands can't just borrow players from wherever, just that it should be limited to how many players they can borrow.
     
  21. Ruthless

    Ruthless Member

    How about something different.

    Allow people to have a second "claim" band. You could be registered with 2 bands. The 2 bands could be any section. You then have to declare which band is the primary band and which is the secondary.

    Bands would then be allowed 5 second claim players in total on top of their 35(?) current registered players

    Areas/finals could only be contested with your first claim band. Other big contests could declare themselves first claim players only (Open etc)

    Other contests could then allow first and second claim players to contest. This would make things more transparent in terms of who is borrowing and when. This would also help some of the lower section bands out when good players decide to move on to better things but don't want to loose their allegiance with their "Home" band.

    Borrowing rules as determined contest to contest could still be applied.

    Not a perfect system agreed (and not fully thought through to the "n"th degree - I'm sure many of you will come up with some flaws) but one where hopefully lower section bands/unsponsored band could get support from better players especially in the sections where there are not enough players to go round (eg percussion).
     
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