Do you think the move to a Kapitol Owned registry is Good, Bad or . . . . .

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by ploughboy, Oct 27, 2012.


Do you think a move to a Kapitol owned registry is . . .

  1. Good all round

  2. Bad all round

  3. Good, with some reservations

  4. Bad, with possible exceptions

  5. Other?!

  1. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    You're absolutely right, "they" have made that statement. But if you think that means they'll stick to it then I'm sorry but imho you're absolutely wrong.

    The BBBR Schedule of fees list a charge of £60 for new band registrations/validations; BBP's schedule has this cost at £100 - you don't have to be a maths genius to see that's an increase right there.

    There's 'hidden' cost increases already too:
    BBP are asking bands to send in SAEs, so the postage costs are another increase that's happened already.
    Photographs for the new cards have to be supplied at a cost to bands/individuals.
    Despite a statement in the initial letter from BBP that exisiting BBBR validations would be honoured, we've now been told every band will have to revalidate by November 2013 which means all the bands who paid to validate for 24 months with BBBR will be £50+ out of pocket.
    I also know of several bands who've had to pay excess postage on stuff BBP has sent out.....

    So, people aren't assuming 'they' are lying, we already know it. And one of the worries is that sooner or later we'll find out what else they're lying about.....
  2. Pauli Walnuts

    Pauli Walnuts Moderator Staff Member

    Can someone post a link to or a copy of the schedule of fees for BBP. Thanks.
  3. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    band secs were sent hard copies with the new registration cards. I can't post a copy as I'm not in the same place as the letter but someone else may be able to oblige.

    And there isn't a link because the promised BBP website hasn't appeared yet.
  4. yorkshire

    yorkshire New Member

    Accidental - You should check the rates for Barnsley (on their website) £100 for a new band to register; £60 for revalidation for existing band for 12 months; £110 for revalidation for existing band for 24 months - Exactly the same as the new registry.
  5. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    You can check the new registry rules there too ;)
  6. YRBBC

    YRBBC Member

    You can also check the Brass Band Players Registry Rules on the Yorkshire Brass Band Championships website.
  7. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    I was obviously looking at an out of date schedule then, my apologies.

    I do however stand by the indirect and hidden costs I listed, and there's another one I forgot to mention - the area entry fees have gone up for next year as well.
  8. YRBBC

    YRBBC Member

    but in some areas it won't actually cost the bands any more money ?
  9. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    If banding was`nt in a seemingly irreversible state of decline, then like you and others I too would comfortable or fatalistic about the "commercial influence in banding".
    The issue for me, as it has been for years, is that in my opinion banding in England has no chance of surviving (as we know it currently) if we do not have a national governing body that owns/runs or at the very least has the collective clout to effect our National Contest, I don`t hold that view for the hell of it, or because of some ideological stance against private ownership of all things banding, I hold it because I want to see our hobby arrest the decline and in time thrive with us all as stakeholders in a truly democratic framework.
    I have no time for Kapitol because their continued ownership of the National and their actions as owner, do nothing to secure the long term future of banding.
  10. yorkshire

    yorkshire New Member

    YRBBC why will it not cost bands more in some areas?
  11. Pauli Walnuts

    Pauli Walnuts Moderator Staff Member

    The rest of the amateur music world is thriving with a National Body that has little to do with governing contests - I am referring to Making Music of course who could easily act as a spokesperson for the amateur band movement. They have the discounted Insurance Scheme, CRB checks and are a Charity themselves. Leave the contesting stuff in the hands of those who have the money to make it work and let the future of brass bands be tied into a body that already has excellent ties into government & funding bodies such as The Arts Council.
  12. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    From what I've seen, that could be a very good option. We've been members for about 6 months. There's some really useful services provided to help with innovation, bid writing, collaboration, marketing etc.

    No need to reinvent the wheel as such, use an existing organisation to your advantage instead.
  13. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    ..reinventing the wheel?
    A national body for English banding, is just England falling into line with every other Banding country.
  14. Pauli Walnuts

    Pauli Walnuts Moderator Staff Member

    You are focusing once again on the national bodies for contesting - and BBE could evolve into just that if it owned the national competition (which it could easily do) but leave the promotion of the art form that is the Brass Band to an organisation that has a far better track record of helping to promote a very varied musical landscape in the UK such as Making Music.
  15. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    Whether we like it or not and unlike any other area of amateur music making in the UK, contesting is our collective raison d`etre.
    BBE if empowered would be our version of the SBBA and the last I looked they do more for their member bands than just oversee contests, why would the situation in England be any different to any other banding nation?
  16. Pauli Walnuts

    Pauli Walnuts Moderator Staff Member

    We exist solely to contest? Really? I don't believe that to be the case.
  17. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    I don't believe this to be the case, however if it is true then brass bands need a body like Making Music to help with audience development. Without concentrating on that, there will be no 'movement' in 20 years.

    Contesting is merely one facet to banding. This issue has caused a lot of people to expend energy on the cause. If they refocussed their efforts on where the next generation of listeners and concert/contest goers are going to come from, banding would be in a much healthier state.
  18. Agree that there should be linkage to Making Music.
    Disagree that BBE is a contesting organisation....I think you may find that this is some of the general background to certain people throwing their toys out of the pram into the brass band media pool.
    Not sure that "thriving" is a description I would use for the local orchestras, choirs or wind bands that I have been associated with over the past few years...but also can't comment as to whether they are part of the Making Music organisation.
  19. Pauli Walnuts

    Pauli Walnuts Moderator Staff Member

    Slight misunderstanding there -I am suggesting that BBE could become the contesting organisation which to date, it has miserably failed to be. That would satisfy the people who seem to want us to act just like every other country and have a governing body for such matters. But there are plenty of bands that don't bother contesting at all or if they do, ignore the Nationals. This whole discussion has little to do with them and nothing to do at all with ensuring the future of the brass band as an art form so imho,we would be better served by an organisation that is not up its own rear end with a desire to self destruct through the medium of the brass band contest.

    In short:

    1) Brass Band England sets up a new national competition
    2) The Existing Regional Committees are invited to become a formal part of BBE and manage the Regional Qualifying Contest on behalf of BBE
    3) All other matters pertaining to the future of the brass band are aligned to Making Music

    In addition, local associations should consider removing the requirement for registration altogether or at the very least, remove it for sections 2,3,4 and Youth.

    Points 1 & 2 really are that simple and I would challenge the management of BBE to tell me why they didn't do that.
  20. JimBrass

    JimBrass New Member

    Taking stock of the polls

    Maybe time to take stock of this vote.

    As of earlier today, 157 have voted.

    A solid almost 70% have said that Kapitol's TAKEOVER is (or would be) bad all round.

    Adding those to that figure who think it would be bad with some reservation (11%), a good 80% of the messagers here think the takeover is bad.

    Only 9 - 18% think this is good/good with reservation.

    That is a telling indictment of this Registry enterprise.

    Undoubtedly, the brass band world has not been fooled.

    All other polls are running at similar levels against this move.

    This is also an indictment of the regional representatives who mostly could not speak truth to power (well done, Shirley at North-West!).

    Undoubtedly, a handful of Kapitolistas wish to try to blow smoke in the vast, clear-thinking majority's faces by bringing up tangential debates ad infinitum, basically because Kapitol's selective outrage and highhandedness is beyond doubt, as is their recent propensity to maximise charges and minimise consultation.

    I think there is one classical historic event which should make Mr Austin Minor stop and think; The Rape of Lucretia.

    That was "pushed through" on the day (do excuse the pun - really), but ultimately signalled the downfall and end of the ancient Roman Monarchy and ushered in the Republic.

    With 80% dissatisfaction, let us see how this "rape" turns out...
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012