Do top players expect too much?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by IanHeard, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    Just heard the sad news that a top English band will not be representing my country at the forthcoming Eurppean, this following on from a similiar scenario for the "Worlds" and other elite bands in England.
    While I understand that the cost of attending these events are substantial, surely some of the costs could be offset by the players themselves, as happens more often with European Bandspeople who seem to realise that they are "amateurs" and seem more prepared to dip into their own pockets for the honour of representing their Country.
    It would appear that the age of big sponsorship in English banding is coming to an end,perhaps the current mindset of some top players needs to change or Europe and indeed the World will leave us behind.
    Ian Heard.

    This is`nt a dig at any one band, merely a response to recent events.
  2. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    ... looks like YBS have a heavy touring schedule this year.

    quote from their site ... "In 2005 the band is looking forward to visiting Australia, France, Holland and Germany in addition to its exciting schedule of concerts in the UK."
  3. AndyCat

    AndyCat Active Member

    There's more to it than that.

    As an ex member of a band who declined a Euro invite in 2003, all sorts of things get taken into consideration

    Money is a big one, but thinking outside the box, it's not just hotel and transport costs. MD's expense for 3 weeks are a lot (in most cases). Rehearsing every night and all weekend for 2-3 weeks also has cost implications even if players get minimum or no expenses.

    The main problem now (IMHO) is the ridiculous Friday start. People, for example teachers (and there are a lot in "top" bands), have to go without pay for a day (or 2 if abroad), arrange cover teachers (somethings schools don't like) and try and convince bosses to let them go. I know certain well known succesfull bands have covered all these expenses before now, but now perhaps aren't in a position to do so ;-)

    At least you could do the competition over a weekend before, without taking time off.

    Combine this with personal expenses whilst away (meals, drinks etc.) for what can be 4 days, the thought of so many extra rehearsals with weekends taken (not very partner friendly), the sometimes erratic timings and, dare I say it, results, and you have something that isn't as attractive as most people may think.

    And remember, unless you won it the year before, you only have 6 months notice to find the extra time and cash. That's if you don't have to cancel any engagements you have or could have taken.

    Just my opinions, and I have enjoyed the Euros I've taken part in, but on the flipside also voted not to go in 2003!
  4. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    Thanks Andy,
    It is helpful to get the views of someone who`s "been there", but surely all of the negative points which might preclude a top English band from attending apply to our European friends too, yet they always seem to be there representing their Country.
    My worry is that if our top bands opt out of world/european competition, the bands in the future being asked tour the likes of Australia and other places won`t be English they`ll be foreign, and they will be touring as World and Euro title holders!

  5. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    not wishing to sound arsey but my student loan is well high enough without having to find the extra £1000+ each to travel to these contests :-?
    everyone's human at the end of the day im afraid.

    I think the best bands will always get the best performance oportunities... a title is just a title at the end of the day, let the playing speak for itself.
    Like someone said in another thread.. 'winning the europeans 6 times in a row means nothing...' (obviously it means something to some of us! :p) but at the end of the day, people just want to hear a good band!
    p.s. I don't think it means nothing :)
  6. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    Good point Aidan,
    This I guess opens another can of worms, are our top bands too reliant on music students?
    Does a long weekend in Holland cost over a grand each!?

    Are you seriously suggesting that being 6 times euro champion(or not) does`nt have an effect on....profile...CD sales...ability to attract top notch players and the best performance opportunities etc etc..sounds very complacent to me.
    Speaking personally I went listen to YBS in Plymouth a couple of years back because they WERE Champions of Europe not because they were a good band who used to be Hammonds Sauce Works.
  7. Anonymous_user

    Anonymous_user New Member

    I back YBS.

    I would rather have a YBS Band to enjoy than they risk their existance by blowing a lot of money on a contest where they have nothing more to prove!

    I know people in the band, and I know for a fact that the trip to Auz is paid for in full by the promoters.

    Yes we need students, they are our future, most players have been students at one time or another be it music, engineering or Law !!!!

    YBS are indeed the band of the last decade and we should support them rather than have a go at them because they are being sensible.

    Just watch them go and win a few contests this year, they are way in front of other top bands even without Peter Roberts!

    You can also bet they are also very proud of the fact they are double Hatrick winners of the European. It will NEVER be beaten.
  8. sparkling_quavers

    sparkling_quavers Active Member

    The top bands want to take the top players. Music students (especially at the RNCM/Salford) are in a position to be noticed by such bands as they are often taught by people directly involved. If a player is good enough, they got noticed and they get the break.
  9. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    As much as I can sympathise with being low on money, time and a potential cross partner, when I see bands turn down bids that other bands would give almost anything to have...I can't help but feel they take their success a bit for granted.
  10. Anonymous_user

    Anonymous_user New Member

    BBCBari........dont take YBS for granted......if they spent that money on the European we might not have a YBS Band that would be a shame wouldnt it.

    Great signing in Nick Walkley
  11. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    without music students i think banding would be practically dead.. not just the current crop of students keep banding going.. a lot of people dont realise how many of the people who play in the top bands have been a music student at one time or another.. out of the current YBS band, 19 are connected to salford, either through teaching or current/ex students, and of those only 7 are students at the moment.
    By £1000+ I was meaning that would probably be near enough the cost for 1 person to travel/attend/eat etc. for the whole contest season.
  12. nodnod

    nodnod New Member

    Great points - people should also remember, that whilst it gives you a head start as a player being taught by one of the top players/teachers at the RNCM/Salford/Hudds, that the studxent is there because they were good enough to get in in the first place....
  13. Craigsav83

    Craigsav83 Active Member

    Yup, quite correct. This is why the standards of bands are getting ever better.
  14. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    What an incredibly daft statement...

    I've traveled quite a distance (at quite an expense might I add) to see the likes of YBS, Dyke, Fodens, etc... In fact, made a heck of a lot more sacrifice to do so than probably most brass band even suggest that I take them for granted... :mad: (enough of my rant)

    All I was trying to point out is from personal experience...I used to play in a band that bowed out of contests because they had won so many, and travel costs, time, etc... were an issue...I think quite a few of the players took winning for granted and now the band is struggling to get back to its winning form because they have been out of the loop.
  15. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I think top players need to adjust to the fact that it would appear that long term large sponsorship deals seem to be a thing of the past,
    to expect their respective bands to finance them in what is amateur hobby (albeit not in musical standards) is becoming hard to justify.
    Perhaps when and if England gets a properly financed national body, they could help financially with our champion bands attendence at contests like the euro, but until the elite English bands start wielding some of the collective clout they undoubtedly have nothing will change.
    I believe we are at the beginning of the end of England`s pre-eminence in world banding, the cracks are starting to show!
    Look to Europe for the answer....effective national bodies representing bands who are truly amateur.

  16. stevetrom

    stevetrom Well-Known Member


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