Do Judges get text messages inside the box?

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by oddbod, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. oddbod

    oddbod Member

    There's good and bad everywhere - we've read about High court judges, police, doctors and members of parliament who have been real bad un's - and most of them, unlike brass band adjudicators, have even signed a Hippocratic oath!

    Before I ask this question, let me say that - the few judges I know personally would probably rather get a result "wrong" than have to cheat - but … it comes:-

    When very few accountable activities are carried out behind closed doors these days without some sort of ultimate scrutiny - is it right to just take a persons word, as a brass band adjudicator, that they are not receiving text messages about who is playing? – and, wouldn't it be better for all, including the adjudicators, to put them in a slightly larger enclosure with scrutinisers.

    I'm not trying to debate the open-V-closed adjudication system as the open system is obviously susceptible to other forms of corruption - neither am I accusing our judges of corruption – but this would actually protect them in this digital age.
  2. midnight_euph

    midnight_euph Member

    I made a similar comment a couple of Regionals ago after seeing someone texting the draw through to someone else.... and hearing a mobile/laptop ding the 'incoming message' sound (apparently) come from within the adjudicator's box. May be coincidence, not pointing fingers, merely asking questions.

    I was told that no adjudicator would 'cheat'.. and that's probably true - but in this age of 'transparency' ............?
  3. 2nd man down

    2nd man down Moderator Staff Member

    I think in this day and age this sort of question is always going to arise, however I feel that there should still be the trust that adjudicators are ultimately there because they love the movement as it were, and that that sort of action would only be damaging to the movement as a whole.
  4. premacyblue

    premacyblue Member

    Isn't it about time this closed door nonsense was changed!!!!! You don't see any of the various celebrity panels on shows like the X-Factor hiding in closed boxes or sports referees watching from CCTV outside the stadium even though they know who they are watching. The whole process has now become farcical and it wont be long before some Band takes legal action against an adjudicator as per the USA for a bad comment. Why can't the draw be done a few weeks before and Bands given an approximate turn up time
    ? This will stop a lot of parking problems in some of the smaller competition venues carried out through the year
  5. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    ... sure you don't, but it's not them who decide the winner is it!!

    That particular process of judging; i.e. eminent people offering opinions on who performed well and who didn't - is elitism on a massive scale and at its worst, and is something I really wouldn't want to see for our adjudicators. Reason being: is that a minority of adjudicators have already placed themselves on pedastals that are way above their abilities - and given the existing setup, nothing is or can be done about it.

    On the other hand, I'd love to have a contest where the audience determines who the winner should be. Couldn't be done in banding really, but sure would be fun.
  6. 2nd man down

    2nd man down Moderator Staff Member

    Amen to that.
  7. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    alot of contest rely on bandsfolk to fill the hall/bar during a contest - a pre -draw means bands can turn up just in time to play thus removing part of the early contest audience!

    I may be inoccent and nieve on this one (i may not be able to spell them either!) but I'm with 2MD, I believe the guys in the box are there for the right reasons and however much I disagree with their decision I am always sure they've made it for what they believe to be the right reasons!

  8. davidquinlan

    davidquinlan Member

    yes, we usually let them know when we're on, so they can sort out their tea break etc...
  9. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    Ive said for many a year now lets have open Adjudication at all contests/ For get this closed stuff.

    At least we have 2 in the box now for most area contests something that should have been done years ago.

    So lets have open 2 in the box for area contests and national final or all other Major Contests.

    At least it will be a start if nowt else
  10. tpcornet12

    tpcornet12 Member

    I agree with having 2 adjudicators but in order to get the RIGHT result.

    I'm not comfortable using words like corruption in this instance. My understanding of the word corruption is; "an abuse of position for personal gain" so I think it a little bit dramatic to consider Brass Banding a risk!
  11. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    Which could mean "Here's the fifty quid I promised, thanks for placing us first."
  12. SuperMosh

    SuperMosh New Member

    All this talk of corruption or whatever in brass banding does my head in.

    Anybody know the text numbers / bank details for the judges at Butlins?
  13. dyl

    dyl Active Member

    No - they do not receive text messages inside the box.

    They do however have their laptops plugged in and connected to 4br's live coverage, then place the results as the exact opposite! ;)
  14. tubaloopy

    tubaloopy Member

    I cant believe what I am reading!!
    Are you seriously suggesting an adjudicator can be swayed so easily?

    I've never paid less than 250.

    I'm here all week.........
  15. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I've never really understood why anyone would think any adjudicator would be corrupt. Deaf, possibly, or possessed of "unique" musical taste, but not actually bent. I mean, we're not talking big money here, are we?

    Leaving the moral/integrity considerations aside for a moment, let's say an adjudicator gets £1000 to place a band first at a major contest, and (in the manner of these things) a member of the winning band's committee falls out with the band and decides to blow the whistle. The adjudicator in question would have their reputation torn to shreds and would be very unlikely to get paid work in the brass band world again. Bearing in mind that most adjudicators are also professional performers, MDs, arrangers, composers, teachers or lecturers (sometimes all of those!), surely the risk outweighs the reward?
  16. Kiz7

    Kiz7 Member

    Couldn't this debate be easily ended with all adjudicator's turning their mobile phones over to the contest controller before entering the box? End of discussion then surely.
  17. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    No, because who'd know that this was their only mobile?

    The only way to effectively ensure fair play is for scrutineer(s) to be picked from each of the participating bands and one or two of these to accompany the adjudicator during the entire process - including the worrying delay between the results being given to the contest controller and them being announced.

    I have often wondered why there is such a delay. Why can the results not be written down by the adjudicator on a pro-forma when in his tent - then passed to the controller/compere to be announced in full view of the audience...?
  18. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - difference of opinion between adjudicators? (... or even indecision by one?)
  19. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Can be done on the basis of a single adjudicator though. And... if the remit of two adjudicators was to determine the top three bands, then they'd have to. SImple as.
  20. Deano

    Deano Member

    I accompanied a well known adjudicator whilst the draw was taking place for the section he was about to adjudicate, prior to his placement in the box he offered me his mobile to look after whilst he was adjudicating. When I said no i thought it would be ok for him to keep it in his possession as long as he turned it off he replied that at some contests he has been asked to leave his phone with the contest controller which he has done so willingly.