Depp Money!!

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by chizzum, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. chizzum

    chizzum Member

    What is it possible to do, when depping for a band on a few jobs, having attended numerous rehersals therefore giving up your time. Then not to recieve any money which they said they would pay. Then when getting back to them the conductor said he would get it to me, but still hasnt. It has been weeks now. How angry and forceful is it justifiably ok to get?:mad:

  2. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    No need to get angry, just write it off and tell as many people as possible that they're bad payers!
  3. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Unless you had a written agreement drawn up by a lawyer, which no-one does, there isn't anything you can do to force them to pay you. The dep system works on trust. All you can do is chalk it down to experience and don't dep for them again. You can also warn everyone you know who might be asked to dep for them that they are unlikely to get paid, but I'd be careful of badmouthing a band too much unless you really don't want to play for them again! Have you got any other contacts in the band other than the conductor? There may be internal politics or financial issues at play here that you're not aware of.
  4. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    As a starter - why not send them an invoice...?
  5. JR

    JR Member

    it's no good asking the conductor (what's it got to do with him? - he's got enough on his plate)- you should have chased the treasurer!
    Or better still done it for (next to) nowt - goodwill to all men?

    seasons greetings

  6. tubaloopy

    tubaloopy Member

    How about not charging in the first place, and helping out a band because they are in need and you are a decent person?

    Sorry, back on planet earth now, lost it for a moment there.
  7. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Sure - help out for nothing by all means if that is what was agreed, but when an agreement is made for the band to pay for the services of a dep, the band should fulfil that obligation and pay.
  8. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    :D I know what you mean, I've never charged for depping and never will - mind you the way I play I should probably pay the bands.

    That said, there are a lot of students who find dep money really helps the financial worries, and a lot of pro/semi-pro players who can't afford to give their time for free. As John said ^, if the band agreed to pay some exes in advance and are now cocking a deaf 'un, that's a bit off.
  9. Bungle

    Bungle Member

    Name and shame them
  10. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Just a thought - is it anything to do with the age of chizzum? On his signature is National Children's Brass Band so that would make him under 16 at least?

    There is something called the Age of legal capacity which is 16 in Scotland and 18 in England and Wales:

    "Age of legal capacity.

    1.—(1) As from the commencement of this Act—
    • (a) a person under the age of 16 years shall, subject to section 2 below, have no legal capacity to enter into any transaction;
    • (b) a person of or over the age of 16 years shall have legal capacity to enter into any transaction"
    So any "agreement " would be unenforceable in law.

    However assuming that you don't drive - how did you get to the jobs and rehearsals? If Mum or Dad took you along one would hope that you'd get something towards their expenses. Or do you always expect to be paid for "your time"?
  11. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    This isn't the way forward I'm afraid.

    One should have a clear agreement between the band and the dep prior to any engagement taking place (where possible of course).
  12. Kiz7

    Kiz7 Member

    Actually, according to Chizzum's profile he is 17 so presumably this ^ doesn't apply?
  13. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    'fraid so - its over 16 in Scotland only - England and Wales over 18. and according to his profile he lives in Rochdale (wanted to put a pointy tongue smiley here but cant as it's an edit)
  14. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    I know it's probably been discussed before and I don't want to appear to be picking on our tuba playing friend above but could I ask who bought his instrument or is it one that's supplied by a school or another band?

    Just to give another example and maybe make it less personal but we had a young percussionist who initial wasn't great - but you encourage them, make sure they have some dam good kit, they play with the band they get better and you end up with a cracking player. Then other people notice that you've got a pretty good kit player so they get asked to dep for other bands (fair enough), then they get asked to do a few shows (with payment for their time) and finally they haven't got time to play for the band anymore because they'd be losing too much money.
  15. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    Makes you wonder why you bother in the first place:rolleyes:
  16. tubaloopy

    tubaloopy Member

    Hmmm, slightly different topic. Do you expect any player that you have taught/used your equipment whilst learning to be loyal to your band for the rest of their lives?

    If no-one charged any dep fees bands would be better off, new instruments and music could be bought which would benefit members of bands.

  17. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Point 1 - No. Players have moved on to play for better bands, no problem at all but they didn't move because they got paid more money.

    Point 2 - agreed it's always nice when you get deps in and they are offered "expenses" and they say "no thanks". Doesn't mean we get them back at every opportunity - usually means I'll happily dep for their band and not charge a fee or expenses etc.

    Maybe that's an old fashioned viewpoint and of course I except that professional musicians have different views - it's their living - they should charge and get paid for their time. But amateur players helping out and expecting to be paid for "their time" grates a little.

    As to the original post however, if this band had offered and agreed a fee then of course they should pay it.
  18. JessopSmythe

    JessopSmythe Active Member

    It wouldn't, however, benefit the deps who have spent time and money doing extra rehearsals etc as well as turning up for the job.

    When ever I do any depping, I try to keep it fairly simple. So long as a band are happy for me to turn up and sight read the job, and the travelling distance is sensible, I never ask for a dep fee (I'm quite happy when one is offered though;)) If, on the other hand, they want a player who will commit to a number of rehearsals leading up to the job, or the job involves longer distances, then I would expect travel expenses as a minimum.

    The loyalty thing is down to the individual. Some people have a conscience and some don't. I spend a fair bit of time in Shropshire, visiting friends and family and quite often check to see if my old bands are doing anything that weekend that they could use an extra player for. I don't count that as depping, just my way of saying thanks for the help the bands gave me in the years spent as a skint student. Other people won't do anything unless it's for the band they're signed for right now. The only right and wrong there is for the individual player to decide.
  19. tubaloopy

    tubaloopy Member

    JessopSmythe, your selected highlight does my point no justice.
    IF NO-ONE asked for payment for helping out, the money would stay in banding.
    If you dont want to help out, or will only help out if money is required, then dont.
    If people were more willing to help out local bands, travelling distance would rarely be an issue.
    Lots of if's I know.
  20. Matt.... the best answer to your problem is to never post a problem on here!