David Daws- Lip trills

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by alks, Sep 3, 2003.

  1. alks

    alks Member

    Here i am sitting listening to golden slippers as performed by David Daws- just a quick question --how on earth do you do a Lip Trill?? I cant even imagine where to begin!. Not that i want to do them that badly, its just i cant see how there possible. Can anyone reading this do them -or is a skill only for the cream of cornetists? -(and then to to finish the song 10 minutes later with a top E as if it were nothing.)

    Last year i met a guy (who now playes for Flowers) who was at the recording of it, apparently he played the entire piece from memory on the first take!, wel well .....it makes us all look crap eh?
     
  2. leisa

    leisa Active Member

    im tryin to do them now with my teacher as i am playing dennis wrights cornet concerto 1st mvemnt and there is a semi-quaver part at the end which is suppose to be3 (not trilled-sorry) but kind of sliding upwards then downwards but i suppose once youve learnt how to do that lip trills would be quite easy. its gettin there the more i practise but i am finding it really really hard!!!
     
  3. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    just cornetists? eh :p ;)
    you need lip flexibilty for doing lip trills, good books to use and vizzuti trumpet method books, think theres a limited section in the arban, another good book, (trumpet method) by some guy.. forget his name.. somethin like george or clarke :S think i said it in another post though.. good luck..
    good flexibility improves your playing no end.
     
  4. iggmeister

    iggmeister Member

    The Dr Collins book is good for flexibility.

    *whee!!!

    Not sure if it is still in print though.

    A lip trill is simply constantly changing from two notes next to each other in the harmonic series, e.g a lip trill on an upper Bb would be up to an upper C (all on first valve or 3rd position for boners), upper B to upper C#(second valve), upper C to upper D (open). It requires great lip flexibility- if you listen to some dance band music, (e.g. listen to Big Band Special on the Radio 2 website) then you will hear some good examples. The very best players dont just trill to the next note but go way up and it always sounds smoothe.g. Maynard Ferguson and James Morrison. Actually James Morrison has a great website where you can listen to him play online- I think it is

    www.jamesmorrison.com

    Igg
     
  5. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    thats the one.. collins :p
     
  6. alks

    alks Member

    Thanks -its all down to practice eh!. I've been using a flexibility book for a few months and am ok at a medium pace, but any faster i find impossible. Going between two close notes quiclky really is hard -- a kind of 'show off' skill methinks.
    Any way has anyone ever needed to use a tongue Trill in a piece? Ie when you buzz your tongue in to the mouthpiece?
     
  7. Darth_Tuba

    Darth_Tuba Active Member

    Are you refering to flutter tonguing? (that word never looks like it's spelt right :? ) If you are then it comes along every now and again in a few pieces. I Got Rhythm is one that springs to mind for basses and euphs to do one... along with the instruction "ROUGH!!!" as if it ever needed to be said 8) Rough is a default setting for bass players :lol:
     
  8. Mike Saville

    Mike Saville Member

    The book you want for this is: How Brass Players Do It by John Ridgeon. This is the bible as far as flexibility excersises go. If even has some excersises specifically on the lip trill.
     
  9. rutty

    rutty Active Member

    I thought that was "lumpy" 8)
     
  10. Darth_Tuba

    Darth_Tuba Active Member

    I don't think I've got that setting on my tuba... I definately have two dynamic settings though: On and Off
     
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  12. BeatTheSheep

    BeatTheSheep Member

    I do it by moving my jaw up and down. And then I do a lip trill. Seriously tho' it's a bit like an extension of vibrato. You just move further. I think higher instruments like a cornet wouldn't use their jaw but probably move their tongue higher and lower. This is sounding even more sordid now! :oops: Also make sure you don't pick too big an interval to trill through.
     
  13. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    I try to use the tongue to direct the air for the pitches rather than jaw, better fluidity when you have it down
     
  14. Darth_Tuba

    Darth_Tuba Active Member

    Can I just "BEURGH" the whole thread here, as there is too much for me to keep up with!!! :wink:
     
  15. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    yeah no problems
     
  16. JohnnyEuph

    JohnnyEuph Member

    you can make your vibrato wide enough to hit the next harmonic note and back again, once you've got that then you can control it with with the air colum to make it faster or slower. Not sure if it's the 'right' way to do it, but it works for me!
     
  17. Mike Saville

    Mike Saville Member

    I woud not recommend this technique to budding brass players - all changes in harmonic to produce the trill should be made by changing the size ofthe apperture/air pressure etc through the embouchure. This should be done with as little visible mouvement as possible. Extraneous physical mouvements (such as wobbling the jaw! :shock: or shaking the head) shoud be avoided as this will prevent the ability to produce the very fast trills.
     
  18. Mike Saville

    Mike Saville Member

    As above - an extended vibrato I would argue is bad technique for lip trills. As the name suggests th trill comes from the lips!
     
  19. leisa

    leisa Active Member

    David Daws is a genius!!!!

    Have to say i'd never heard him before but i went to the gala concert of the great northern brass last night where he was guest soloist he played Golden Slippers anmd This is my story and my mouth was just hangign open throughout the whole piece!!! Roger Webster was equally amazing though!!!!!
     
  20. alks

    alks Member

    Now you know what i mean by 'Lip trills' !! his CD called 'Golden slippers' is amazing -highly recommeded.

    The book i use is indeed called 'how brass players do it' however i am missing the last 8 pages from the book.-but to be honest its hard enough anyway-i'll probably never need them!!.

    I word of warning however-dont spend the day before a concert practicing flexibility -you will still be knackered the next day -and will struggle stamina wise- unless you have lips of iron!.
     
  21. BeatTheSheep

    BeatTheSheep Member

    Apologies! I wasn't trying to suggest a method, but describe what seems to happen when I do it! On Euphonium you seem to be able to lip trill just using the pivot method. Whether my lips have been conditioned to work without reference to conscious brain instructions I don't know. It is a bit like riding a bike. Now descibe how you do that!
     
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