Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by baritone impresario, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. just played through judges of the secret court and can't understand why we have to do the cuts .i know that time is a factor but surely another 3-4mins a performance is going to hurt.the cuts ruin what is a great piece of music both for player and audience alike.just wondered if anybody else felt the same way?

  2. BoozyBTrom

    BoozyBTrom Member

    I agree. Makes no musical sence at all. I bet the composer would be turning in his grave if he could hear what is being done to his piece.

    It seems to be just a Brass Band quirk.
    Somehow I dont think Simon Rattle and the Berlin Symph would be making cuts in one of the great symphonies just so the concert ran quicker.
  3. James McFadyen

    James McFadyen New Member

    Exactly! :lol:
  4. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Mineworkers Championship yes? So it's the famous Frank Wright arrangement which (according to our database) is 12 minutes long! I mean, it's not like the usual 15-20 minutes that you get in a Championship section piece nowadays! What's the point? Perhaps one of the test piece selectors can explain? It b*stardizes great music. It was bad enough with the 'expurgated version' of Enigma Variations to 'celebrate' Eric Ball's centenary. Why does the brass band movement do this? If Berlioz was chosen because of his bicentenary then why defeat the object of celebrating his special anniversary by choosing a well known arrangement of one of his pieces and then go 'snip snip snip'? Geoffrey Brand's arrangement of Corsair Overture is about a minute shorter (and in any case, the time is relative as each band will doubtless be choosing different tempi anyway!)

    I realise that this is an 'outsider's' opinion, not taking part in this contest but I wish the band movement could get away from what to me, is a trend towards going back to the test pieces of the early 1900s, 'Reflections of Verdi' and the like. We've had two movements from the Planets at the Open, excerpts from Enigma and now, what appears to be 'Your favourite bits of Les Francs Juges Overture' There'll be a bloody album next on the Ronco label next 'not available in the shops' ('cos no one in their right mind would buy it!)
  5. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    Harsh but fair!

    Frank Wright's arrangement belongs to a different era when test pieces were shorter and transcriptions of classics still had a didactic function. So a condensed version of a classic was considered more approachable than the whole thing. Classic FM still runs according to this philosophy: the whole piece is too demanding so lets just give 'em the third movement...

    I understood that, at the time when this arrangement was made, it was at the limits of what the players could achieve and the cuts were introduced to make the piece more acceptable. Perhaps FW had some concerns about the extent to which some of the more athematic sections of the piece really work in the BB arrangement. I know I do!

  6. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Good points D. I see the analogy with Classic FM, but to me, it's almost like them accusing its listeners of having a short attention span or not being able to concentrate for long periods. I'd like to think they seriously underestimate their audience! Perhaps they judge the audience on the attention span of its presenters.... (meeeeeowwwwwww!!!)

    Another FW arrangement that leaves me flummoxed is Force of Destiny (sacrilege, Payn, sacrilege...) I think (personally, knowing the orchestral version) it's overscored in many places (like the opening few bars' 'hammer blows') and an extra octave was added in the section marked (in the BB arrangement) 'no vibrato' in the sop which doesn't appear in the original. Having said that, I've never heard a recording of the band version where the semiquaver tremolos (which FW rightly indicates should be played as such) are played as genuine semiquavers and not in the style of a trill!
  7. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Of course, ClassicFM can't play anything longer because of fitting in their oh-so-subtle commercials :!: :wink: :lol:
  8. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    ...which would explain why they never have time to play any brass band music!!!

    Back on topic, I can't believe anyone thought a piece thats only 12 mins long NEEDS to be cut, and I can't think of any bits that could be taken out without ruining the music. Where are the cuts anyway?
  9. VenusTromster

    VenusTromster Member

    Come on Nick, it means we will have more time for drinking! :guiness
    And I guess other stuff that goes with it.

    Becky 2nd Trombone Carlton Main Frickley
  10. Bones

    Bones Member

    You'd think now with the fact there is fewer bands in the top section, they'd want something to fill out the day.

    The cuts just don't make musical sense.


  11. Hornted

    Hornted Member


    No problem with the idea of dropping the cuts but not at this late state, the contest is now less than two weeks away.

    Several bands have already withdrawn from the Championship Sectional already, making the line up down to five I believe. I suspect much of the reason behind this is the pressure put on bands to come up with an Entertainments program for the Sunday and also the test piece on the Saturday. Rules have had to be relaxed to allow a couple of the bands to borrow players for the event and I think rules should remain regarding the cuts. If from the start we had been asked to play all the piece then fine but not now. I also understand that the bands concerned were given the chance to write in to the committee with the request to drop the cuts before the final meeting prior to the contest, I believe this did not happen so the committee have taken the correct decision.
  12. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Perhaps, for the purpose of this contest,it should be renamed Judges of the Secret Cut!
  13. VenusTromster

    VenusTromster Member


  14. Railybobs

    Railybobs Member

    Sorry they do play Brass Band music if you ask them. they have access to all of Frank Rentons stock. ! ! !

    You only have to E~Mail