Cruddy valves...and valve oil.

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by WoodenFlugel, Feb 12, 2005.

  1. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    I thought I'd give my flugel a pre-area bath today and was amazed at the amount of gunk in the bottom of each of the valve casings. Its not that long since I last cleaned it, and I've never noticed the problem before, so I was wondering what it could be.

    The only thing I could think of is the valve oil I'm using is reacting with something or gunking up somehow. I noticed the crud is a similar colour :eek: to the valve oil I use - blue juice (sorry if thats too much information ;) ) but I guess it could just be just colouring existing crud not actually causing it. I've used blue juice for a while now and I think its good stuff - in fact I've posted on here a couple of times to say how good I think it is, but I'm aware that there have been a few critical comments too. Is this why some people are critical of it? Has anyone else found this problem?

    For info I play a Bach Strad that's about 10 years old.
     
  2. Big Twigge

    Big Twigge Active Member

    A valve oil thread...my favourite thread topic!

    Not sure Mr Woodenflugel, all I can say is that my valve caps aren't crusty (not a phrase you say everyday)on my Bach Strad, but I don't use blue juice....maybe you have correctly diagnosed the flugel illness?
     
  3. sterlingsop

    sterlingsop Member

    I have used blue juice for a while now because it simply put it makes my valves feel great. But, now you come to mention it, I get a horrible build up of goo in my valve caps too which mean I have to clean them more often. Perhaps I'll try Holton again and see if the goo problem gets cured.

    What do others find is the best valve oil to use? I've got a proper Sovereign cornet - not sure how old but it is one of the last of the good models before they started using poor quality metal and the 3rd valve slide ring turned to a lever. It had an overhaul about 18 months ago and it's still in excellent condition. I don't want to ruin the valves using an oil that causes blue goo syndrome!!
     
  4. yonhee

    yonhee Active Member

    Is blue juice the kind that isnt poisinous?I use whatevers in the band room at the mo cos ive lost mine but ive never used blue juice i cant remember what the stuff i usually use is called the bottles sort of round but the back an front are flat if that helps...
     
  5. sterlingsop

    sterlingsop Member

    Sounds like holton.

    I don't think any are poisonous any more are they? There's rules about what you can and can't imbibe now!
     
  6. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Hmm intresting...I just checked the caps on my sovereign and they are fine. It's also an old model (about '78 I think - one of the first) but there is no build up of green goo anywhere to be seen. Admitedly I don't play it that much now (if we don't get some more cornets for Hadleigh you might get to find out why!!;) ) but it's also been a while since I gave it a good clean.

    I've found that blue juice seems to be the best stuff for my valves, so I'm happy to carry on using it, perhaps I just need to clean them more often.

    Anyway, there have been several threads on tMPers preferences for valve oil if you feel you need to change:

    http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=250
    http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5936
    http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1322

    Oh and as far as I'm aware nearly all valve oils are poisonous as they are petrolieum-based. You wouldn't want to go around swigging the stuff from the forecourt of you local Esso garage...:eek:

    NOTE: Other petrol brands are available...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2005
  7. sterlingsop

    sterlingsop Member

    ^ Thanks for that. I am happy with blue juice on the whole, it's just that I don't want to cause long term damage to my cornet. It's too precious to me!

    I take your point about them being poisonous - it's just that I learned a long time ago not to get valve oil near my mouth. I suppose it's just force of habit now and not a conscious decision on potential poison grounds! Ooooh the times as a kid I've oiled my valves and got it everywhere only to bite my nails or something shortly afterwards......yuk!!! Worse is when they used to stick, spitting on my fingers, rubbing it on and by the 3rd valve feeling slightly sick. Ah, the innocence of youth!!
     
  8. yonhee

    yonhee Active Member

    Blue juice seems to be the favourite i think i'll get my mum to get me some cos ive lost mine i always lose the stuff for some reason :confused:
     
  9. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Active Member

    I am an ex-Blue Juice user.
    I found that it worked well on some instruments, but not on all of them (I use quite a few). Some of them it made truly horrendous.

    I have recently changed to using Spencer Snake Oil and have found it works fantastically on every instrument I own (quite a few). I reckon I have tried just about every valve oil and Snake Oil is the best I have yet found.
     
  10. euphfanhan

    euphfanhan Member

    i used blue juice on the bands euph and eventually found that it turned into a sort of blue glue, and that the valves stuck completely. when i got my own euph i stuck to besson and occasionally zaja, and it works fine with no gunk at all.
     
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  12. yonhee

    yonhee Active Member

    uhoh ive just orderd a bottle of blue juice :( :oops:
     
  13. euphfanhan

    euphfanhan Member

    tehe, rob won't notice. all the band instruments are kinda wrecked anyway! and it might be ok with your horn.
     
  14. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    IAN get some CHARLES DAVIS OLD FASHINED VALVE OIL it is fantastic stuff and the valves are great after, as you know i play Baritone and i have used it now for 3 years and would not use anything else.
    At the Midland Area TREVADA MUSIC should be there they sell it see Len Adams tell him that i recomended it the price is about£3.50 a bottle but it is well worth it.
    A good number in our band use it now and would not look back on anything else:) :clap:
     
  15. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for the recommendations folks -I've heard that the Spencer Snake Oil stuff is good, but I've never come across it anywhere - trumpetmike can you recommend a supplier? Ta.

    I'll also have a look at the stuff you recommend Ian at the area - after all there's nothing else to do at Burton Town Hall...

    What's really annoying is I just bought a new bottle of Blue Juice at Butlins...maybe I ought to give it to the missus...;) :)
     
  16. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Active Member

    www.willspencer.org is currently the only place you can purchase Snake Oil, unless you happen to see Will in person. The oil is now being used by all of Surrey Brass, most of the teachers in Surrey, may of London's pro trumpet players and a number of brass bands seem to be placing orders.
    He is also a superb repairer and customiser of instruments - worth checking out the rest of his site.
     
  17. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for the link Mike - it's a good site. I might be troubling him for a bottle of his snake oil soon...
     
  18. yonhee

    yonhee Active Member

    Thank god cos i dont think my mum wuld be to pleased as i spent hours telling her it was really good.Actually rob uses it on his baritone so it shuld be ok.
     
  19. floral_dance

    floral_dance Member

    I think the problem with blue juice is that it has a cleaning agent init so if used continuosly will keep cleaning the valves hence the reason for build up of gunk. I used to use it all the time and it made my valves worse. I now use the valve oil which is non posionous and developed by Roger Webster called Websters ECO-LUBE and my valves have been great ever since. I got it mail order through band supplies in Leeds.
     
  20. Highams

    Highams Member

    First of all, you need to take time out and read this study;

    http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/micat/1995/msg00055.html

    It reveals that all oils except synthetic, will evaporate in about 2 days, leaving you to run on.........whatever gets into your instrument.

    Hetman in the USA make synthetic oil that comes in 3 grades, a very fine one for new & tight valves, a slightly thicker one for standard valves and a very thick one for old, worn valves.

    This stuff works wonders and at under $4 a bottle, it pays to order a quantity to keep in stock.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/search.html/102-0505425-5473755?_encoding=UTF8&node=11965861&brand=Hetman

    It's also supplied with new instruments from Willson, Miraphone, Theine, Yamaha in Europe & the States.

    www.euph9.freeserve.co.uk
     
  21. yonhee

    yonhee Active Member

    Great i buy blue juice then everyone starts going on about how cr*p it is!typical....
     
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