Cornet players - top A trill?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by 1alexm, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. 1alexm

    1alexm Member

    Hi, in a piece of music we often play has a sop cue in it and in the sop cue there is a top A trill (A to B), but whenever my friend plays it, it comes out as a A tremolo. I then had a go of trying to practice this sop cue at home and it came out as a A tremolo. My question is - is there an easier way of trilling A to B rather than using valves 1,2-2?
    I know you can trill A to B going 3-2, but my pinky finger is weak and I struggle pressing the third valve so quickley.

    I'd tell my mate to play it down an octave, but I think that would upset him, hehe.
  2. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    Lip trill. They're not easy, so get practicing!
  3. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    Problem is that top A has so many potential alternative fingerings - 1/2; 3; 2(flat), 1/3, and the fingerings for the B (2, 1/2, 3, 1/3) are also possibilities for the A as well (since you're just dropping by a set interval from the notes above C which can all be played open).

    On my EEb the best result I can get is 1/3 to 1/2/3, but even then it's actually far easier and cleaner to use 1/2 and lip-trill up to the B.

    Of course an even better alternative might be to use a sop....... ?
  4. 1alexm

    1alexm Member

    I said EASIER way of playing this trill. Is Lip trill the only solution to this problem?

    The sop player is scared to play it and its been asked of the cornet player to play it lol
  5. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Blow it harder.

    Seriously ;)

    You might find the B 'easier' on 1 / 3 this way.
  6. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    If you have time to prepare, you can use fingers 1-2 on valves 2-3. Don't know why this would make the note production any easier!

    Just tried various combinations on my sop:

    1/2-2 and 2-3 equally difficult, 3-1/3 slightly easier but not sure about tuning!
  7. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Having just reread what I'd written, I guess I should clarify this is the combination I was meaning....whether or not the tuning is an issue is, to an extent, context dependent.
  8. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Why? Thats only an E for him!
  9. FlugelD

    FlugelD Member

    1/2 to 2, but THINK B down to A rather than A up to B - maybe even cheat and play the B first... it always seems (to me) to be easier playing down on a trill rather than up...
  10. brassbandmaestro

    brassbandmaestro Active Member

    To quate andywooler, as it is only an E, why is he scared? Surely at that range on a sop, should'nt be too difficult?
  11. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Well-Known Member

    You asked for easier - the lip trill IS easier and MUCH more reliable than trying to co-ordinate alternative fingerings alongside a lip trill (which is effectively what you will be doing on any of the valve combinations suggested).
    If you find lip trills difficult, then there is your solution - work at your flexibility. Once you are able to lip trill those notes you will find that valved solutions work also - you can then choose whichever valve combination sounds best.
  12. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Lip trill seems the best option because it's a little unfortunate that the harmonics for all valve combinations are so close at that range. Who was the composer/arranger?
  13. <nickw>

    <nickw> Member

    I remember hearing you having a go at it once in a concert, didn't you alex. Did you lip trill it or what?
  14. daveredhead

    daveredhead Member

    The sop player is scared to play it and its been asked of the cornet player to play it lo![/quote]

    Hello:mad: Sop player scared to play E to F trill, it is only just getting in His/Her range Someone wants to have words and explain what a Sop does:eek:
  15. shellie

    shellie Member

    the sop player is to scared iv only been playin a brass instrument for 15 months and started playing sop 3 months ago and e to f is not hard at all thats wat ur job is
  16. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    Hello:mad: Sop player scared to play E to F trill, it is only just getting in His/Her range Someone wants to have words and explain what a Sop does:eek:[/quote]

    Kind and supportive words, hopefully..
  17. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    To be frank, with such a ridiculous situation I wouldn't expect anything less. It really is bizarre to even suggest this trill is moved onto a Bb cornet! If it happened in a band I was conducting, I would help the sop player understand how to play it! If your sop player can't manage this simple trill, I would question whether that person is on the right instrument.
    (my opinion here is based on my experience conducting in 4th/3rd section bands and too many years of playing the sop!)
    Out of interest, what is the piece that this is in?
  18. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    That's a bit harsh without knowing the piece - admittedly it's unlikely in this case but there are reasons for leaving out a note other than 'I can't play it'. It would depend on what else is going on - perhaps the trill comes in between two much higher, louder, longer passages that can only be played by the sop, and so the sop needs to offload this one note just to get a breath.
  19. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    But it's not, is it? If I've understood correctly, the trill in question is A to B on Bb cornet, therefore is E to F# on sop, which is really not that simple a trill, since one has to work against the natural harmonics of the instrument. Even if one plays the E on 1+2, the tendency is still for the instrument to want to slip down to D# on 2nd, simply because it's nearer. Yes, it can be overcome with practice, but it's not that much simpler than A to B on Bb, at least for an inexperienced player, and in any case I tend to agree with those who suggest that a lip trill on a Bb would actually be easier.

    I don't know how many people are familiar with Eric Ball's "The Challenge" which is for (Bb) trumpet and piano originally, (although there is a band version which Rod Franks recorded with Brighouse several years ago). Anyway, that has an extended (11 beats, I think) trill exactly as the OP described, from A to B. Many years ago I spent some time preparing the piece (can't remember why, because I never performed it :confused:), and I had terrible trouble with the trill, tried all sorts of valve combinations, none of which helped, until I figured out that a lip trill was a better solution, and discovered that it really was easier. As Trumpetmike says, lip trills are worth working on for all sorts of reasons anyway, (I find they help with not only flexibility, but also range developement and stamina as well) so that would also be my answer to the OP's question as well.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  20. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    You can say the same for every trill that is not onto a natural harmonic
    The original OP said nothing of the kind - it never mentioned the length of the note.

    If this is an inexperienced band and players, what makes you think that the Bb players will find it easier to lip till a top A than a Sop player to trill a note that is well within the register of the instrument even for an inexperienced player? The person who mentioned earlier about starting on the note above (for our sop player here that would be F#) is giving the sort of advice I would expect the MD of this band to be giving to the sop player who is struggling - you're not helping your sop player by failing to help him/her.