Copyright - filming performances

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by tinytimp, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. tinytimp

    tinytimp Member

    I was hoping some of you knowledgable people out there in tMP land may be able to help me with this, I still can't seem to navigate my way around the PRS website yet...

    I'm studying for an MBA in Arts Management, and for one of this term's modules I'm intending to film my band in preparation for the Regionals, and hopefully at the contest as well (if I can find someone else to film as I'm playing!) What are the copyright issues involved when filming? The piece (Festival Music) is still in copyright, but are the rules different for filming to those for audio recording? And do they still apply when the finished product will be used primarily for educational purposes?
  2. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    What exactly do you mean by 'primarily educational'?

    This page is the MCPS-PRS Alliance page that covers educational use products. You'll note that the use of music in such things is on an individually negotiated basis (although the bias on the site is towards the use of production music or commercially available material rather than recording live performances). If you're intending selling the product it might be covered by the AVP.

    That said, the agreement can differ depending on the primary content of the material - it's best to give them a ring (020 8378 7500)

    Also bear in mind that you'll need the written permission of the venue and contest organisers to be able to video anything.
  3. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    And the people you are filming?
  4. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Yep - sorry missed that out.

    Performer's Rights - just the 1st page from Google...there are lots ;)

    The discussion on things like this has been had before somewhere - things like whether or not performer's permission is granted implicitly on entry form submission for filming then selling DVDs of entertainment contests and the like...
  5. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Interesting debate - is the performer the band or the individual?
  6. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    You tell me - it was you who raised it last time I think ;)

    IMO - an it is only an opinion not a legal statement - it's the Band, although I guess for it to be strictly true members must sign up to some kind of clause in the Constitution or something to waive individual rights. When I record Derwent Brass I record Derwent Brass, not a collection of 25 individuals that happens to contain Rob Stew, Joe Bloggs and Graham Johnson....
  7. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    There is a potential legal issue over filming a band play. Even though one may have the best of intentions, if any band has a child under 16 years of age, you must obtain the permission of their parents. Quite often in schools nowadays, they have to consult parents over photos of sports days, swimming events, classroom photos, everything, as it is a very serious child protection issue.

    Coming from the angle of a professional performer, I am often infuriated by some people's attitude towards recording and filming performances. Under MU regulations, a recorded performance should incur an extra part-fee and if this is not agreed, the player can quite justifiably refuse to play. The amount of times bands, choral societies, amateur orchestras book pro players and then start setting up the microphones is amazing. Quite often they seem to think that, if they are paying for a player, they can record them as well. I am sure that KMJ has some experience of this.

    If a band goes to a contest and that performance is recorded without the knowledge of that band, or it's members, there is potential for some quite serious repercussions. How many times is a contest recorded, versus how many times the company seeks the permission of the bands in question? Quite a sorry ratio, I fear.

    While I think the idea of having a record of the band's performance is a good one, there are legal and ethical ramifications.
  8. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Indeed - MU regulations can either be a blessing or a nightmare depending on which side of the fence you're sat on :D

    The parental consent point is extremely well made.....
  9. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    What about a video recording made of your own band, playing at say and entertainment contest rehearsal. A couple of clips on your website say oh . .. 45 secs each. any ideas what the rules would be there?
  10. tinytimp

    tinytimp Member

    Thank you all for some very thorough information so far.

    When I say educational, the main point of the film would be as part of a formal assignment - I am intending to produce a form of 'e-press kit' that may include rehearsal footage, a recording (from an already available published CD and with relevant permissions), example press releases and the supporting process diaries and analyses. Thus the footage will be viewed by no more than two examiners and for nothing other than assessment purposes. It would be my hope, of course, that the band think my work is of a good enough standard to use should they so wish, e.g. as 'stock footage' in case any TV news reporters happen to come wandering by, which is why I need to be aware of the potential issues if it were to be made available to a wider audience.

    We have no children in the band (in fact at 22 I am the youngest player) so no issues with parental consent, though of course I will be approaching the band to ask if anyone has any objections to being filmed.

    Having done a bit more research, I probably wouldn't film the actual contest performance due to the rules laid down by the organisers, as well as the practical concern of being on stage myself!
  11. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Best thing to do is ring them Garry - the reproduction of any work in which copyright subsists regardless of it's length needs to be licenced to be legal.

    The idea that a clip needs to be more than 30 seconds long before it becomes of interest is a very popular misconception.
  12. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    Cheers Keith!
  13. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Well-Known Member

    I'm not up-to-date with the latest 'web rules', I'm sure, but you are recording a copyright work and broadcasting it. Lots of ramifications !!

    PRS/MCPS have just agreed to collect royalties from performances put up on YouTube, although I've no idea how they administer it!

    When Music for Battle Creek was used at the Dutch Nationals last year, there was a performance (recorded on a mobile phone) on YouTube within hours.

  14. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    With great difficulty, I'd guess ;)
  15. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    ... and a lot of manhours sifting and deleting before the clips are idendified! :rolleyes:
  16. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Aren't they / weren't they relying on copyright holders identifying things for them? Or was that another similar video-type thing?
  17. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - their moderation team were supposed to be doing that! It's clear in their terms & conditions that copyright infringement will not be tolerated! :rolleyes:
  18. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Er....right :hammer
  19. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    It's late, Keith! ;)
  20. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    I know ;)

    Things to do, projects to finish....thankfully only one possible video escapade.

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