Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Bryan_sop, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. Bryan_sop

    Bryan_sop Active Member

    During our rehearsal tonight, we realised something....

    Our conductor, Peter Bassano is adjudicating the 1st section in Yorkshire, alongside Rob Childs.... 2 weeks later, he's conducting the same section...Rob Childs is the only adjudicator (us poor and weak southerners only get the 1)

    I would consider that an issue??


    BTW I don't in any way doubt either adjudicator's judgement. At the end of the day, they're still stuck in a tent?!
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2008
  2. Ipswich trom

    Ipswich trom Member

    As a competing band in the L&SC area I would also consider this an issue. Not doubting the integrity of either but surely anyone conducting a band in the same section should not be appointed to ajudicate in that section and definitely not alongside the person that is going to be sitting in the box. Surely this should be flagged up to the organisers?
  3. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Again not doubting the integrity of Messrs Childs & Bassano I do feel this is a bad error of judgement and could cause an interesting & lively post contest debate!

    The problem is its the National Contest but the areas act independently without talking to each other. Until the National Contest & its qualifiers are run & controlled by one entity this could occur again.
  4. tx7887

    tx7887 New Member

    there was a similar 'problem' in the lsc region last year, where the conductor of a winning band (surprisingly, according to most in the audience) was also the resident conductor of another band where the professional conductor was the man in the box.
  5. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Really? Don't remember hearing that can of worms being opened! Which section?
  6. a very flat b

    a very flat b Member

    The problem will be if there is any contoversy. They will both be wide open to critism.
    BTW did you tell your MD that you were going to open this for all to read on a public forum?
  7. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    In effect its all there already for everybody to see, just nobody has seen the connection.

    No doubt it would have been very apparent when those in the L & SC saw the results & who the judges were from the Yorkshire area after the Yorkshire area.
  8. tx7887

    tx7887 New Member

    [QUOTE =Chunky;577278]Really? Don't remember hearing that can of worms being opened! Which section?[/QUOTE]

    Suffice to say it wasnt 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th!
  9. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Pardon me, but isn't that a contradiction? Either you don't doubt their integrity (in which case what's the problem?) or you suspect that there may be something underhand going on, in which case it is, as you say, an error of judgement.

    It seems ridiculous to me that bands are so suspicious of the motives and integrity of conductors and adjudicators that the moment there is the slightest coincidence (i.e. two respected musicians adjudicating together in Yorkshire, then one adjudicating the other in LSC) we throw out conspiracy theories. There simply aren't enough really good top section conductors and adjudicators to go round all the top section bands in all the areas without some overlap occurring somewhere.

    I don't see what the "issue" is. Surely no-one is realistically suggesting that musicians of the stature of Childs and Bassano are going to risk their considerable, hard-earned and well deserved reputations by attempting to fix the result of a band contest??!! And if that's not what is being suggested, what's the problem?

    Just as an aside, to me it seems the implication of the OP is that the LSC adjudicator will know which bands are playing when. In which case, why not scrap the box entirely and do away with this ludicrous practice of closed adjudication?
  10. Ipswich trom

    Ipswich trom Member

    that is not what i was suggesting. My concern is simply that the Yorkshire area is 2 weeks before the London competition. Peter bassano is sharing the box in Yorkshire with Bob Childs and will no doubt gain an insight into exactly the things he is looking for in the performance. he then has two weeks to refine his interpretation of the piece before our contest. That in my book equals potential unfair advantage.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2008
  11. MattB

    MattB Member

    Here Here.
  12. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    I do not see my comment as a contradiction. As I state I have no problem with either gentleman, but just the situation they have put themselves in leaves it open to debate come results time.
  13. Dago

    Dago Member

    Winning contests has absolutely nothing to do with interpretation, its about playing of the highest standard. You get that from having the best players on the day who then go on to give a (hopefully) flawless performance and are able to do what the conductor wants - ever wondered why Dyke, Fodens etc. are still in the top 5 - yes - they've got the best players!
  14. sophunk

    sophunk Member

    Hi All

    In all honesty when we cut to the chase I think this test piece, as all ,speaks for itself and will do exactly what its meant to do ie TEST the band. That will dictate the result not potentially any concerns around the adjudicators.

    Just my opinion

  15. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    But Ian, assuming that a particular MD wants to tailor their interpretation to the adjudicator's preference, surely all they have to do is have a day out at the Yorkshire area (or anywhere else Bob is adjudicating) and listen to which interpretation finds favour?

    As for gaining an insight into what Bob's looking for, I'm pretty sure that tuning, dynamics, control, warmth of sound and flawless ensemble would be near the top of his list and didn't have to sit with him for 6 hours to come up with that! :D
  16. Morghoven

    Morghoven Member

    So what are conductors for then, wouldn't a metronome be just as good? And in truth one wouldn't need adjudicators either, just a piece of computer software that counted mistakes.

    In any case, you've contradicted yourself by saying it's not about interpretation and then saying you win by having players who do what the conductor wants - what's that if not interpretation?!

    Still, if it's an attitude that's good enough for Alan Morrison, I can't say I'm surprised.

    On the original topic, I agree with what seems to be the majority view that although we trust these gents not to fix the result, they are leaving themselves open to that accusation. Remember that not so long ago, the BFBB effectively sacked Stephen Mead as an adjudicator because he had conducted one of the bands eight months previously at a different type of contest on totally different music...if that situation was deemed unacceptable by the supposed governing body, how can this one be okay?
  17. Dago

    Dago Member

  18. bertiebass

    bertiebass New Member

    Well, I'm in the minority (which I can't believe why), so bring on the abuse. I really don't understand what the fuss is about and why its an issue. I don't believe someone like Bob Childs would fix or give an unfair advantage (whatever you want to call it) to any band, besides he dosen't know whos playing whilst in the box. Again just my opinion.
  19. Ipswich trom

    Ipswich trom Member

    Not sure anyone has actually suggested that. As far as I am concerned the only possible issue is that the two people are together in the box in Yorkshire giving the conductor a direct insight into Bob Childs thinking on this piece( other than playing all the right notes at the right tempos and dynamics of course). The argument about interpretation is valid as our band found to our cost at Butlins last year (2007). The comments were all positive on band sound, ensemble playing etc but we were slated for the interpretation that our MD directed.
  20. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    Maybe, but I wouldn't mind betting than the winning band made a better job of all the basics and therefore sounded the best as well.

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