Child Protection Guidelines

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Ffion Flugel, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Ffion Flugel

    Ffion Flugel Member

    Could anyone point me in the right direction regarding current policies on CRBs etc within bands. We have a training band, and were told that the players helping out with that needed CRB checks etc, but we also have young (under 10) players in the senior band. Do the senior band players have to be CRB checked?

    Sorry, I'm probably miles behind the times, but I'm picking up the pieces and trying to make sure everyone's happy.
    Thanks :)
  2. DRW

    DRW New Member

    Our local brass band association has guidelines which it encourages all bands to adopt. It may be worthwhile contacting yours as a first point of call to see if they have anything.
  3. John_D

    John_D Member

    We too have young players in the band. Whilst associations and the BFBB will offer guidance, it is just that - guidance. It is up to the band (or committee) to come up with a policy that it is happy with.
    We have many (but not all) players holding a current CRB check. Some have been done through the BFBB and others have them through work (several members work in education) and the band is happy to accept these. The rules regarding the checks are changing to enable more flexibility. Not that long ago the PE teachers in a school where I taught had around 12 CRB checks in operation at any time as every sports governing body was insisting on having their own done (FA, Badminton assoc, etc). A huge waste of time, money and resources.
  4. DRW

    DRW New Member

    The guidance from our association has been created in conjunction with the local authorities so it is robust. It is correct that each band has to create its own policy from the guidelines to fit the situations in which they operate, but it is a great starting point.
    It could be a bit misleading to say that a band can simply decide their own policy; would it really be acceptable if their policy was to treat children in the same way as adults?
    I would say that part of getting the right policy in place is to demonstrate that the subject has been taken seriously and that appropriate bodies have been consulted in forming the band's own policy.
    The second part of course is ensuring that the policy is adhered to. In our band that entails relevant people being CRB checked, attending courses and sticking to codes of conduct in the way that we operate, e.g. no situations where a lone adult is with children.
  5. John_D

    John_D Member

    we have also found, when applying for grants, that a good 'Child Protection Policy' is often required and that lack of one, or having a policy that doesn't meet the funder's requirements, can prevent you from getting grant funding.
  6. Creu Cerdd

    Creu Cerdd Member

    Making Music, the national support body for UK voluntary / amateur music, offers advice on child protection and all affiliated issues, including CRB checks and drawing up your own child protection policy. Check out for details - specific information on child protection can be found here or contact us direct for further information. Hope that helps
  7. pbirch

    pbirch Member

    this is a serious issue, and you shouldn't be sorry for asking the question. The Salvation Army has a safeguarding system called Safe and Sound, it applies some sense to a very difficult area and should be available to you if you ask them. on the comment about CRBs, I have several myself in relation to band, church and professional areas of my life and it may seem a waste of time and resources, but each organisation is looking to protect itself from potential problems, if someone is a determined predator they will tell each organisation the he or she is CRB'd elsewhere and slip through the net.
    it is well worth getting outside help and advice (the NSPCC may be a good resource), and remember the policies are there to protect the band and the adults in the band as well as the children.
    In answer to your questions (1) yes anyone helping with the training band should be checked, and (2) key members of the senior band should be checked, and if they are not present then the rehearsal or function should not go ahead with the young players
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  8. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    This is one of those areas where it's easy to get confused with what is and isn't a legal responsibility. Some organisations will view that by having robust CRB checks in place they are doing their bit.

    To my mind it's far more important to ensure that members of an organisation understand what their responsibilities should be around children and vunerable people, and that a policy should reflect this. I.e. adults never being alone with them and segregated changing facilities etc

    Bands have a responsibility to ensure safeguarding. That doesn't necessarily mean that CRB checks must be completed for all.
  9. nethers

    nethers Active Member

    It's all so depressing... I hope NZ never finds itself so far down that path. I had a great childhood, changing uniform on the bus with all the grown-ups, teacher happy to make physical contact with me as needed to demonstrate a point, one-on-one tuition behind a closed door... it is sad that children today have to be kept so sheltered and separate because of a tiny number of perverts.

    So what about adult learners in a youth band, should they have a check? What about a senior band with half a dozen kids involved?

    Sorry for my post as well, I appreciate it doesn't contribute to the OP request, an emotive issue for me however that I cannot resist chiming in on.

    Stay safe, don't be put off, keep up the good work with the kids!
  10. pbirch

    pbirch Member

    The world, of corse is not full of perverts, but, unfortunately, it is no longer good enough to say that "we are nice people and we won't do anything to hurt your kids". the global scandal of abuse in the Roman Catholic Church is demonstration enough of that. In the Salvation Army, the CRB checks occasionally bring to light people who want to coach our kids, but have something in their past that makes it too risky to allow them to do so. It is a problem, how do you tell someone who has helped for many years that they have to change how they do things or even that they can't do it anymore?
    You might well say how sad it is that trust is lost, but one more case of abuse is one too many, and I for one am only too glad to submit to the CRB checks so that the youngsters, their parents and my colleagues have a degree of confidence that I am a safe person to be and to have around
  11. nethers

    nethers Active Member

    Sorry, I am aware I am hijacking this thread, I hope this is my last time!

    By the same logic however, should we be forced to produce paper saying we have never shoplifted before being allowed in a store? Even a drunk driver who runs over and kills a person (even a child!) can reapply for their driving license when their sentence is complete.

    The fact that such draconian attitdues only seem to exist for this particular nature of crime smacks to me of politics. Popular policy, doing at least as much harm as good. A determined child predator will find a way, you don't need a CRB check to approach a child outside the school gate.

    In my mind it is as silly as banning a man who robbed Barclay's Bank from ever going in a Barclay's again... yet leaving them free to enter another bank.

    The problem with making extra rules is that only honest people obey them, and more often then not, suffer in the process.
  12. pbirch

    pbirch Member

    There is nothing draconian about it at all, this is a case of risk management. It is the case that the best guide to future behaviour is past behaviour, and in the SA, we do believe in repentance and the capacity for change, but still have to show that all reasonable measures are taken to safeguard young people.
    I was careful not to specify any particular form of abuse, and we may well be particularly exercised by the risk of sexual abuse, but violence (including domestic), bullying, dishonesty and other issues come up, indicating character flaws that make it too risky for such a person to have contact with youngsters in our care.
    The example of shoplifting is apposite, in the uk, known shoplifters are banned from some shops and malls, I know it doesn't mitigate for unknown offenders, but it reduces the risk, and as for the drunk driver, insurance is so punitive after a conviction to make it difficult for them to drive.
    It is not a perfect system, I know, but at the moment it is what we have got, not using it is negligent and leaves organisations quite exposed
  13. Creu Cerdd

    Creu Cerdd Member

  14. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    It is my understanding that the CRB checks are NOT transferable. That one for a school teacher is for THAT workplace and another is needed if that teacher is a Scout Leader, for example. (However that is purely hearsay on my part and not verified in any way).
  15. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    The BFBB provide member bands with free CRB checks (if required).

    Simple question does every member of a band over 18 require a CRB check to be made on behalf of the band, if there are members younger than 18? If so please indicate the relevant statute/law that says this?
  16. alanl58

    alanl58 Member

    The latest info that I have is shown below:

    24 January 2012

    Vetting & Barring Scheme and Criminal Records Regime Review recommendations - Latest Update

    Welcome to a new series of e-newsletters to help you keep informed on the progress of the Protection of Freedoms Bill, and in particular news on how the recommendations from the Vetting & Barring Scheme Review and Criminal Records Regime Review are to be implemented. We hope you will find these regular updates helpful to you in your current and future work. We'd also welcome hearing back from you on how useful you find the e-newsletters.


    The Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 sets out a framework for the scope and operation of the Vetting and Barring Scheme (VBS). Following the reviews into both the Vetting & Barring Scheme and the Criminal Records Regime (CRR), the subsequent report recommendations which require legislation are included in the Protection of Freedoms Bill (PoF).

    These Bill provisions scale back the scheme, in particular, through the abolition of the registration and monitoring requirements, and the reduction in the range of posts to which barring arrangements apply.

    1/ Protection of Freedoms Bill Provisions that relate to re-modelling the VBS.

    The PoF Bill timetable so far:

    Date Stage
    11 February Introduction and publication of the PoF Bill in The House of Commons
    1 March House of Commons 2nd Reading
    9 March Committee of Selection meets to appoint members of Public Bill Committee
    22 and 24 March Public Bill Committee oral evidence sessions
    29 March; 17 May Public Bill Committee Day 3 and 10 - clause-by-clause consideration
    10 and 11 October Commons Report stage and 3rd Reading
    12 October Lords 1st Reading
    8 November Lords 2nd Reading
    29 Nov 6,13,15 December 10,12 January 2012 Lords Committee Stage

    The Bill provisions that relate to the Vetting and Barring Scheme (VBS) and the Criminal Records Regime include (CRR):

    scrapping registration and continuous monitoring;
    scrapping controlled activities;
    reducing the scope of regulated activity (that is activity, which people on a barred list cannot do);
    making changes to the criminal records checking process, including the introduction of a new system for the continuous updating and portability of criminal record
    issuing certificates to the applicant only
    improving systems for resolving disputes and representations
    improving the relevancy test the police apply to intelligence and other information
    merging the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) and the Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA) to form a new single organisation called the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS).
    2/ The Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS)

    The provisions in the Protection of Freedoms Bill also mean that the services of the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) and Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA) will be merged and a single, new Non-Departmental Public Body (NDPB) created in place of the previous two organisations. The new organisation will provide a barring and criminal records disclosure service and will be called the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS).The date that the new organisation will come into being as a non-Department Public Body (NDPB) is planned to be November 2012, and is subject to Parliamentary timetabling.

    3/ What happens now? What does it mean?

    We will keep you informed of developments and updated as the Protection of Freedoms Bill continues its passage through Parliament. For now it continues to be business as usual. Please see the separate sections below for further information on the:

    Re-modelling the Vetting & Barring Scheme frequently asked questions
    Review of the Criminal Records Regime phase 2 recommendations
    Business as usual

    It is business as usual at the CRB, AccessNI and the ISA. Their websites will be updated with any new information. These website addresses are as follows: For information relating to the current Disclosure process visit: or

    You can also contact the CRB Customer Services team on 0870 90 90 811

    Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA)
    For information relating to referrals and barring decisions:

    Also note that both the contact centre number 0300 123 1111 and the email address is no in longer operation. All queries should be sent to the new email address which is:

    Continued Safeguarding Duties:

    Safeguarding duties remain in place as introduced in October 2009 and continue to apply:

    if your organisation works with children or vulnerable adults and you dismiss or remove a member of staff or a volunteer because they have harmed a child or vulnerable adult (or there is a risk of harm), or you would have done so if they had not left, you must tell the Independent Safeguarding Authority
    a person who is barred by the ISA from working with children or vulnerable adults will be breaking the law if they work or volunteer, or try to work or volunteer with those groups
    an organisation which knowingly employs someone who is barred to work with those groups will also be breaking the law
    Stay informed

    Over 66,000 employers, charities and voluntary groups have registered an interest in being updated on the remodelling of the Vetting & Barring Scheme and changes to the Criminal Records Regime. This newsletter is being circulated as an update to those individuals and organisations. This approach will be used to communicate further information.

    Therefore if you know anyone else who would like to be kept updated, please forward this newsletter to them and ask that they complete their details using the following link: to receive information directly in the future.

    4/ Questions and answers relating to the re-modelling of the VBS.

    1. Why are you looking to scale the VBS back?

    Under the previous arrangements proposed, some nine million individuals would have been required to register under the Vetting & Barring Scheme, as their work fell within the definitions of the prescribed work (i.e. regulated or controlled activities involving children or vulnerable adults).

    The Government has conducted a review of these proposals and come to the view that they were not proportionate. The Bill therefore amends the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act, which provides the framework for the vetting and barring scheme, to redefine the scope of the scheme (i.e. reduce the range of posts that fall within 'regulated activity' and scrap 'controlled activity' altogether) so that only essential posts (from a public protection perspective) will fall within its requirements. This significantly reduces the number of individuals affected by the scheme.

    2. How will employers and other registered bodies understand who falls into regulated activity and who does not?

    Appropriate and timely guidance about the remodelled scheme will be provided before any changes commence. We will continue to use Government websites to ensure that appropriate information is available to relevant audiences.

    3. Will you issue guidance about safe recruitment practices, such as still being able to request criminal records checks even where barring information will not be available?

    Yes. The Department for Education will update its sectoral guidance for education settings, "Safeguarding Children and Safer Recruitment in Education". The aim will be to provide advice that is as clear and brief as possible. This can also be used as best practice guidance for other settings in the children's sector.

    4. Why are you changing the definition of regulated activity?

    The Government considers that the scope of regulated activities under the SVGA was too wide and covered too many people. We wish to guard against discouraging genuine people who wish to volunteer for work with children.

    It is for employers and organisations using volunteers to ensure safe recruitment, training and supervision, rather than relying wholly on state-regulation. Allowing people to work under supervision emphasises the shared nature of protection arrangements.

    Barring arrangements

    5. What are the changes being made?

    We have redefined "regulated activity" (paid or voluntary work that involves contact with children or vulnerable adults) to ensure that only those who have close, regular or unsupervised contact will be covered by the new arrangements.

    Controlled activity did not include the same level of close contact as regulated activity, this was an unnecessary burden on many individuals, so government has scrapped the notion of controlled activity altogether.

    Those working in regulated activity will still be subject to the barring regime but we propose to abolish the requirement to register with the Scheme for continuous monitoring. Where a position involves access to children or vulnerable adults employers and voluntary bodies will still be able to request CRB checks, which will include relevant criminal record information

    6. So what is happening to 'regulated activity'?

    The definition of 'regulated activity' will be narrowed under these amendments, meaning the range of posts subject to barring decisions will be reduced. As we will also be scrapping the previous requirements for registration and continuous monitoring, the overall burden on those posts still within the scope of the new arrangements will be greatly reduced and, we believe, more proportionate. A smaller (and more proportionate) group of roles will now be defined as regulated activities.

    7. What is happening to 'controlled activity'?

    The concept of 'controlled activity', where an individual had some contact with children and vulnerable adults, but not as intense, frequent or regular as that deemed a regulated activity, will be scrapped under these amendments. Previously, controlled activity would have covered posts like catering staff in further education colleges and hospital records clerks, for example. Employers would have had to check people applying for these posts but could have employed them if appropriate safeguards were put in place.

    8. Will the new scheme apply to volunteers?

    Yes. The refocused scheme will focus on the activity being carried out, rather then the employment status of the individual carrying it out.

    Volunteers who are undertaking the newly defined regulated activity will still be able to obtain an enhanced criminal records disclosure and the organisation employing them will be required to check their barred status before the individual commences working in regulated activity. Some posts working with vulnerable groups, but which fall outside regulated activity, will remain eligible for enhanced CRB checks. This will help employers to make an informed decision about employing someone, either paid or unpaid.

    9. Will volunteers now have to pay?

    As now, volunteers will not be required to pay for criminal records checks. The opportunity to opt into the online checking service and pay a subscription fee is voluntary. The level of that subscription fee has yet to be determined but it will certainly be cheaper than a new CRB check. The decision on whether volunteers will have to pay for this service is still under consideration.

    Abolition of registration and monitoring requirements

    10. What are the specific changes being made?

    Those engaged in roles which fall with the scope of the new arrangements will not be required to register and there will be no continuous monitoring arrangements.

    11. What types of post will not now fall under Regulated Activity that would have been covered by the previous scheme?

    Examples of people who will no longer fall within regulated activity include supervised volunteers and external contract workers such as plumbers, electricians or window cleaners, and receptionists working in care homes.

    12. Will similar changes be made in Scotland and Northern Ireland?

    Justice and criminal records matters are devolved functions and Scotland and Northern Ireland have separate arrangements. Nonetheless, it is important that arrangements across the UK are all in step and there are no gaps in public protection terms. With the agreement of the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Bill makes parallel amendments to the vetting and barring scheme in Northern Ireland so that it continues to be aligned with that in England and Wales. Scotland is maintaining its own Protection of Vulnerable Groups (PVG) scheme.

    5/ The Review of the Criminal Records Regime - Phase two


    In parallel with the review of the VBS, a separate but aligned review of the broader criminal records regime was undertaken. This was led by Mrs Sunita Mason, the Government's Independent Advisor on Criminality Information Management.

    The first phase of the review focused on issues concerned with the extent and demands of pre-employment vetting systems and the role of the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB), in particular, what information it should be disclosing and to whom. Phase two focused on the broader criminal records regime.

    Phase two of this review has also been published and a summary of Mrs Mason's recommendations are set out below:

    Summary of Sunita Mason's criminal records regime review recommendations:

    I recommend that an individual's 'criminal record' should be defined as all their convictions, cautions, reprimands or warnings which are recorded in central police records (recommendation 1).

    I recommend that the Government conduct an immediate review of which offences are recorded in national police records.(recommendation 2).

    I recommend that the Police National Computer should continue to be the central repository for criminal records for the foreseeable future (recommendation 3). Linked to recommendation 3.

    I recommend that the Government should begin work immediately on developing and analysing alternative options for sharing and managing criminal records in the longer term (recommendation 4).

    I recommend that Ministers and their Northern Ireland counterparts should reach agreement urgently on how to fund delivery of the PSNI -PNC criminal records and fingerprint connection (recommendation 5).

    I recommend that the Government and the police service should move towards a more integrated approach to the administration of criminal records. I further recommend that the scope to expand the role of the DBS over time to provide the customer-facing aspects of a range of disclosure services should be explored. (recommendation 6).

    I recommend that:
    (i) Access to criminal records via the Police National Computer should only be granted where it is necessary for public protection or criminal justice purposes. (ii) All such access should be agreed by the Police Information Access Panel (PIAP), based on appropriate business cases and supply agreements.

    (iii) All existing supply arrangements should be reviewed within the next 12 months to check they conform to the standards set by PIAP (recommendation 7).

    I recommend that the systems for individuals to access, challenge and correct their own criminal records should be maintained and better publicised (recommendation 8).

    I recommend that the comprehensive and easily understood guidance which I advocated in my phase 1 report should extend to broader aspects of the criminal records system, such as definition, retention and access (recommendation 9).

    I recommend that Ministers commission further work to review and update the cross- Government strategy for improving the international exchange of criminal records. This should include consideration of the following elements:

    ( i) ensuring the transfer of fingerprint records with criminal records as often as possible (particularly with EU Countries);

    (ii) ensuring greater levels of notification of criminal offences committed by British citizens outside the EU;

    (iii) looking at whether more can be done to prevent the entry of foreign nationals who have committed serious offences abroad and who present a serious risk to public protection;

    (iv) seeking agreements to allow the CRB to obtain criminal records from a person's country of nationality where the applicant and employer request this as part of the CRB disclosure process and where adequate safeguards can be put in place;

    (v) developing a coherent and consistent cross-government policy setting out the circumstances in which foreign governments should be told about the convictions of their nationals and ensuring that all UK agencies adhere to it.

    (vi) allowing British residents to obtain a standard CRB certificate when applying for a post abroad that would be excepted from the ROA if it was in the UK, and to a check of the barred list where it would have amounted to regulated activity; and

    (vii) ensuring that existing and developing initiatives in this area are adequately resourced (recommendation 10).

    The Terms of Reference for both reviews, the formal Government response to both phases, along with the full Criminal Records Regime reports can be downloaded using the following link:
  17. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    Simple answer, no. None of them do.

    It's merely a recommendation. Some parents would see them as a must and some organisations you want to work with may insist on them, but they're not a legal requirement.

    The one major flaw with CRB checks is that they are only an indicator of previous criminal activity of those that were caught. Those who have commited crimes but not been caught will have clean records.
  18. Missy_Gracie

    Missy_Gracie Member

    Hi, I'm a youth worker currently I work for the Methodist Church, someone I went to uni with works for Children England who manage which has loads of really useful information for community organisations. For myself anyone who is in a position of responsibility should be CRB checked. Band officers, MD/Conductor, anyone teaching in the training band, and anyone who is responsible for children. EG not the whole band, even if there are children in senior band. However much much more important is a robust policy, to protect adults and children. So the whole band must sign up to it. Usually common sense stuff like not being alone with children, not contacting children outside band etc.
    I see this as really key for protection of adults in an organisation as well as children, because if policies are in place and are adhered to there is much less risk of accusation, and if that should occur evidence can be provided that everything was as it should be. Safe Network will provide training, but also have lots of information for just such situations as these. has everything you need to check what you should be doing, and what you can put in place. My guess is if you are a band who is concerned you are already doing a lot of it! (Not being alone with children, not transporting children alone in a car with adults, not allowing bullying to happen, not using humiliation as a training technique/ for a laugh etc!)

    So well done on asking, because more voluntary organisations need to be prepared to say "we care about kids, and we want the best for them!" rather than closing their doors on it! is the link to all the downloads, including sample policies, help in working out what you do and don't need etc.
  19. Ffion Flugel

    Ffion Flugel Member

    Wow, thanks everyone for the brilliant information. I'm glad I asked the question, and I'm going to sit down over the weekend and look properly at all the replies - see if I can get some sort of idea about what we should be doing.

    Thank you :)
  20. pbirch

    pbirch Member

    our band now has some players over 80 years of age, which might bring us into the realms of Protecting Vulnerable Adults too.

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