Cheesyest arrangement ever!

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by TrumpetTom, May 30, 2011.

  1. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

  2. MoominDave

    MoominDave Active Member

    :confused: How?
     
  3. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Indeed, how??

    You are subject to UK copyright law (unless there is a Skelmanthorpe in Switzerland that I am not aware of).

    Swiss copyright law does not come into it. Even if it did, it is the same as EU copyright law in terms of duration, so...... I'm really puzzled what you mean!
     
  4. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

    Either way it does not make a difference as Swiss copyright law is the same, BUT read point 6. I probably am wrong but this is how I understand it. And turns out enesco was Romanian and no American like I thought.
     
  5. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    And Romania is in the EU, so....................
     
  6. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    It doesn't matter where the composer was born. What's important is the copyright law of the country you live in.
     
  7. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

    But then why does it say differently there!!! I don't want an argument I want a discussion so can somebody explain point 6 please becuase I don't get it, presuming you are right.
     
  8. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    He is right.

    In practice, any published work will have a subpublisher in the UK. This makes the country of 'origin' (of the published edition) the UK. So, as far as you're concerned, UK law applies to everything, in practice.

    Before UK copyright was extended to 70 years, there was a period when Gershwin was still copyright in the States, but pd here. UK laws superceded those of the 'country of origin'. Ravel is pd here (d. 1937) but still copyright in France - even though we are both in the EU - as the French passed a law to say he's still alive (or something!!). So please don't try Swiss law (why???). Stick to 70 years and you'll be fine.

    If you want to find out if a work is pd or not, PRS for Music will help you.
     
  9. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    When you mention the "Swiss Copyright Law", I assume you meant the Berne Convention? Have a look at the details surrounding it's implementation and membership. It should clarify things a little more ...

    http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p08_berne_convention
     
  10. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

    Thankyou Philip that explains! And Swiss law is 70 years also anyway so this was more of a for other works kindo thing. So (completely hypothetical) say there was a piece of music not published in this country that's origins were in some country where copyright laws are at the composers death and the composer died last week, would an arranger be able to use it without permission legally?
     
  11. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    That composer's works would still be protected in this country, so far as I am aware.
    But we are now in the realms of fantasy!
     
  12. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

    Right, I've done my research and spoken to people and turns out I'm in the clear, so its alll guuurd :D
     
  13. MoominDave

    MoominDave Active Member

    In the clear on what? The Birdie Song, or Enescu? I'm inclined to doubt either, I must admit...

    Edit: Unless you've spoken to the relevant copyright holder and obtained a specific legal waiver for this usage, of course.
     
  14. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

    Birdie. I'll buy the Enescu.
     
  15. MoominDave

    MoominDave Active Member

    But how and why? I don't mean to be a persistent irritation, but unless you've got some kind of hotline to the holder of the copyright, there's no way what you've done is legal.

    Charming, yes, harmless, yes. But not legal.
     
  16. MoominDave

    MoominDave Active Member

  17. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

    It just apparently is! I don't know either mate, but that's what the person who's published birdie song arrangments before said when I asked him "Hi, I was wondering whether you'd be able to tell me where to get copyright permission to do an arrangement of the birdie song?" You do have to apply from publishing rights and recording rights though.
     
  18. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Member

  19. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Tom, I seem to remember having this discussion with you on the band bus back from some contest or other.

    I don't know who's told you you're in the clear - but they're wrong I'm afraid. And if they've told you that you're exempt because it was done for educational reasons, that's hogwash too. That applies to the license to copy "A reasonable part" of a work for academic purposes, such as analysis of a score, and photocopying in one or two bars (with proper acknowledgement) if they prove something you're trying to say in your analysis. It does not run to arranging a whole work, by any stretch!

    It doesn't matter why you want to do the arrangment. Death+70years is the law over here for anything and everything that hasn't specifically been released by the copyright owner into the public domain. That applies if you're writing for the London Phil, or for the Macclesfield albanian nose-flute choir - and whether it's for making money, or doing your music homework.

    The long and the short of it is that unless you have a copyright license from the UK copyright holder then it isn't even legal to have done the arrangement. It really is that simple. Plus the license agreement for the copyright permission is between the copyright holder and the arranger - not any other ensemble/establishment you're doing the arrangement for. That means that if you've been told to arrange somthing that's still on copyright by (for example) a schoolteacher, and you do it, then yes, they'll probably get the book thrown at them for leading you astray, but it doesn't change the fact that it's you that's broken the law.

    Everything Brassneck, Moomin and Mr Sparke have said over tha last few pages is spot on. It's really good advice from people who really do know what they're on about.... and you've got it all for free!

    I'd take it if I were you..... quickly.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  20. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member


    Thanks, I have a list of mechanical rights and they are one of 3 publishers. I may drop them an e-mail later, although I do trust the information I already have.
     

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