Cheating in bands.

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by kingsmessenger, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. kingsmessenger

    kingsmessenger New Member

    Having read the rightly closed thread and banned user this morning it got me thinking.

    Having spent most of my adult playing life in male only bands, I've never really been exposed to what happens when a member of a band ha an affair with another member, and how that can be made so much worse when the wife and mistress are both band members. Let alone children too.

    How does a band deal with that? Surely its massively destructive and would need to be eradicated with a sacking?

    Do Grimethorpe actually have it right with their male only membership ideal?

    This is a sensative issue but it's a real one and is apparently pretty common. I think it merits a discussion topic here.

    I'm not making reference to any bands in particular here.

    Please discuss and please also allow the discussion to develop naturally.

    Please avoid naming anyone personally.
  2. fatcontroler

    fatcontroler Member

    I did help a band out for a while where this had happened. They wasnt married but it was all happening behind this other guys back.

    When he found out he......well he just got on with it.

    THAT WAS IT! no fireworks or anything. well dissapointed!
  3. Mattytheshark

    Mattytheshark Member

    I dare say it happens no more in bands than in any other past time - or workplace even.
  4. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    no a player cannot be sacked for having an affair, its nobody's business only the ones involved. If it was so bad one would probably leave on there own accord anyway.

    Your Grimethorpe ideal would mean 3/4 bands would be extinct as most bands have some family relations in!!
  5. fatcontroler

    fatcontroler Member

    No doubt it does, and as there are a lot more workplaces than bands, i bet it does!

    I guess the difference is that in most working roles you cannot be sacked for an affair, whereas in a band you probably could.

    Some bands would value the harmony more than any playing success, but i bet that with some bands they would be more likely to sack a bottom 3rd cornet than a solo euph
  6. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

  7. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I think it's for the bands in question to decide how far personal life impacts on the presence of a player. I'm not going to go into specifics, but in every band I've played for there have been issues not related to band matters which have led to players either departing or being asked to leave.

    It goes further than extra-marital affairs though doesn't it? Do well all know how many of our players have been up before the beak? Have even served time?

    I might appear to be a nice chap in person, but how does anyone know I haven't got a conviction for GBH?

    And likewise, even though I have, is that anyone's right to know? I might be an entirely reformed character and simply trying to put my past behind me.

    Difficult choices where personal lives are concerned, and decisions can only be made on these things by the band management as and when they occur.

    It has to be for the band themselves to decide what's important enough for the band to rule on and what should be left alone as purely personal business. (As it's likely that failure to judge correctly will result in players voting with their feet anyway.)

    Everything on a case-by-case basis is the best method.
  8. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

  9. Simon Preshom

    Simon Preshom Member

    Can of worms much????
  10. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Fair point, but as long as the band has a robust constitution with clear membership rules and a process for 'sacking' which is seen to be followed clearly and fairly, then a claim or complaint wouldn't get very far (seen it happen!).

    In any situation where a player's behaviour seriously affects the rest of the band, then I think its only fair on everyone else to ask them to leave.
  11. Ste69

    Ste69 Member

    Agreed - Might just sit back and watch this one! :)
  12. pbirch

    pbirch Active Member

    whilst an affair is not a public matter, the other things you raise are matters of public concern, particularly if you have children (that is anyone under 18 years old in the band). It is a child protection issue and will be disclosed on a CRB check, and if you have under 18s in the band everyone should be CRB checked.
  13. AndyCat

    AndyCat Active Member

    Incorrect. Key personnel, if that.
  14. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    If a band wants to sack someone they can. Simple as. For any reason.
  15. if bands can sack someone for doing a lot milder than dipping their nib in the bandroom ink then anything is possible.

    still, bands can do what they like. there isn't any laws coz you can go and join another band if you don't like it. no one has ever sued a little brass band never mind a big one for being sacked. it happens with big orchestras coz there's less of them and it's all pro and full of contracts. we're amateur clubs. best way really or half our subs would go to lawyers.
  16. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Plus I've never seen a band constitution that requires anyone to declare a criminal past, and would be interested to hear how that would compare legally with the terms of the rehabilitation of offenders act.

    I'm no legal expert, but I'm pretty sure that spends most of it's time dealing with an offender's relationship with their employer... and without a contract, a band's not an employer....
  17. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    Plus I've never known a bandsman sued as they didn't play a contest that he/she said they would . . . .
  18. jockinafrock

    jockinafrock Active Member

    When such a post is started it is always with the intention of trying to give the tMPer the impression that the initiator knows something somewhere is going on.... what utter drivvel. Read a similar post this morning that was bordering on libelous. Treated that with the contempt it deserves too.. :rolleyes:
  19. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    Both statements are incorrect. Check out Halsbury's Laws of England for case law relating to unincorporated members' clubs (which the majority of brass bands are) and the rules of natural justice.

    Such cases do not attract publicity, even in the local or banding press, so it is impossible to say how many bands have been involved in such litigation.

    There is one reported case here, but I think, in general, such matters pass below the radar.
  20. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    Though the subject of initial gossip, I doubt whether affairs within a band are of much long-term interest, let alone concern to the rest of the band.
    Much more damaging are those individuals who snipe and 'bitch' about others' playing, and cause conflict and confrontation for self-gratification. Sad individuals.