Cheating at contests cont . .

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Splitzer, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    I'm sure the comment was tongue in cheek and not malicious or slanderous.
    A bit naughty, but harmless.
    Let's lighten up here.

    - Mr Wilx
  2. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    That was my first idea too, so why did he have to insult Ian?
    Ian just mentioned John Berryman as an adjudicator with exceptional pitch. He didn't suggest anywhere that John is 90 years old. I just wanted to point out that it was Mr. Charisma himself who introduced that number.
  3. BrianT

    BrianT Member

    Transposition is OK, isn't it?

    As far as I know, the Hummel Trumpet concerto was composed in E major, but these days we play it transposed down to Eb major because it sits better on the modern Bb (or Eb) trumpets.

    Since the exam boards endorse playing a transposed concerto, who are we to suggest that the general principle of transposition to make a piece easier to play is wrong?

    (And just for interest, if you were to play the Hummel in the original key of E, what trumpet would you play it on?)
  4. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Interesting point about the Hummel, but your argument doesn't really work for band contests because the test pieces are specifically written/arranged/transcribed for the bb instruments... and that doesn't include trumpets! ;)
  5. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Talking about opening a can of worms, lol! If we have to accept that the concerto was written in the key of E major, it wouldn't make sense for the player to try and transpose down a semitone because of the harmonics of an Eb keyed trumpet. Crooks were used at that time to lower the pitch so it is more likely to be what was best for tuning. Difficult one this to determine, isn't it?
  6. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    If my memory serves me correctly, the last time I heard it played was on a D trumpet. I wasn't playing as there are no trombone parts, but I listened in on the rehearsal.

    Re. John Berryman - I won't hear a word said against him. His judgement is perfect, as is his sense of pitch. See my avatar for confirmation of why his judgement is so good ;)
  7. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    A trumpet in E, presumably. They do exist. If you are lucky (or rich) enough to own a Shilke G1L or G1L-4, it is normally supplied with bells and slides for both G and F pitches. If you can justify the additional cost, Schilke will also sell you an additional bell which lowers it into the key of E.

    From the website:

    Model G1L-4
    Four Valve Tuning Bell Trumpet in G

    Bore: M -.450" (11.42 mm)
    Bell: M – 4 3/8" (111.13 mm) Yellow Brass Bell with #5 taper in the key of “G”

    The G1L-4 has an additional fourth valve adding a lower fourth to the trumpet’s range. This instrument is extremely versatile and ideal for solo playing when a broader sound than a smaller piccolo trumpet is desired. In G only, the G1L-4 has a dark, full-bodied, big horn sound, which allows the performer the flexibility to execute a large diversity from brass quintet to orchestral parts. Unless specified, this model is built with #5 bell in “G”. This is the largest bell will offer in taper and diameter in key of G and is approximately 4 3/8" in diameter from outside bead to bead. This bell provides a “broader”, “heftier” sound and is ideal for blending with larger trumpets.

    #7 Bell In G
    Smaller then the standard #5 bell, the #7 is larger in the throat then the # 8 bell and is approximately 4" in diameter bead to bead.

    #8 Bell In G
    The number #8 bell is the same bell we use on the P5-4 piccolo trumpet and used for a lighter piccolo sound in G when required.

    #5 Bell in F w/slides in the key of “F”

    #2 Bell in E
    This bell taper and length will allow you to convert your G1L to E natural when used with F slides.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2010
  8. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    Gareth, there's a pub nearby. Go and use it :guiness
  9. kingsmessenger

    kingsmessenger New Member

    How many people have cheated at contests?
  10. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Who cares?
  11. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    :clap: :lol: :tup
  12. kingsmessenger

    kingsmessenger New Member

  13. Brass_Head

    Brass_Head New Member

    Good MD's/Bandmasters will work with the players they have to find a 'workround' difficult passages and phrases.

    For me, moving 2nd cornet parts on the the front row etc is wrong on all levels. I contested with a local band a few times and found it really difficult to play the test piece because of all of the additional pieces of manuscript I had to balance on my stand.

    Playing euph, I would be covering 2nd Horn, Baritone and Eb Bass at the correct pitch but with totally the wrong sound.

    They had a change of MD who was far more straight down the line and they continued their winning streak and improved dramatically as a band.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2011
  14. kingsmessenger

    kingsmessenger New Member

    It's pretty common to have the super dep on cornet and everything written not their part.

    Always a quick fix and always detremental in the longer term, although of course that 10 mins of playing may be better.
  15. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    I've been that player (prefer the term "uber-dep" ;))..... didn't do them any harm...... in the end its up to the players in the band how far they're willing to go to try and win. Sometimes it'll pay off and sometimes it won't. As is the case with most things in banding.:dunno
  16. kingsmessenger

    kingsmessenger New Member

    Thats fair enough mate. I also have been that player on occasion, and although i've thoroughly enjoyed it, and the and have normally felt it has helped, do you not think that they would really have been better off toughing it out with players that would have stayed in the band afterwards?

    The quick fix and contest results are paramount as an MD, and when i've been conducting I've never knocked back the chance of having a super sub, and it always worked, but was it really better for the band. At the time i thought yes because the player would drag up everyones standard, but in hindsight perhaps thats a little shallow?

    ON another point,

    I also have played at a major contest with a named yorkshire band where we have known that one of our players was signed with another band, in another area. We won, and although after the contest it was mentioned on tmp as a rumour and unofficially with the band, nothing was done. I think you can cheat if you like and to be honest, no one wants to rock the boat so just gets the sweeping brush out and lifts up the carpet!

    It really helped us at the time that Tmp deleted all posts that accused us, as there was apparently not enough evidence. It was mentioned at a band meeting at the time, that if Tmp had not done so we would probably have got caught out.
  17. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    Why? Have you got something to admit to? Or just being nosey? Or want to take the 'holier than thou' attitude?

    I can't think of any other reason for your question.
  18. bariwizard

    bariwizard Member

    Something to admit to by the sound of his last post - I won't pretend I understand it though.
  19. jackocorn

    jackocorn Member

    "moving 2nd cornet parts on the the front row etc is wrong on all levels" - we've been moving Front row parts onto the 3rd Cornet. Is that OK?
  20. eflatbass

    eflatbass Supporting Member

    My contesting experience is very limited; however, I do remember being told when playing with Langley Band (1972), that it was not uncommon for euphonium and baritone parts to be "swapped" when 'Life Divine' was the test piece. Whether or not this involved the two players changing seats, I am not sure. Perhaps some of the more mature members of the forum will be able to throw some light on the matter.

Share This Page