Charivari for Bb Cornet

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by doc, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. doc

    doc New Member

    Am looking to borrow a copy of the solo cornet part for Charivari - need to see if it is playable by myself before I buy the full band set. Any chance of borrowing one??

    Many thanks.

    David Cooper
    Bon-Accord Band
  2. lynsey83

    lynsey83 Member

    I have this David, send me your email address and I'll scan it over to you

  3. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Active Member

    Which is, of course, illegal - unless you have the permission of the copyright holder.

    David - if you contact the publishers they will almost certainly send you a samle copy for a small cost.
  4. boourns

    boourns Member

    With the greatest respect, is anyone uptight enough to care about this?

    We're not talking wholesale copying of parts here, rather a single part to possibly facilitate the sale of a full band piece. If the publishers are likely to do it anyway, I definitely can't see a problem.
  5. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    If you were in the position of relying for all or part of your income on royalties from the sale of your work, then I think you would care.

    Personally, I am in that position, and, yes I do care; and no, I do not believe that makes me uptight.
  6. boourns

    boourns Member

    You care that someone will copy a single part, done in the expectation that this will lead to a sale of the full piece? Seems to me you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    For clarity, I am obviously not advocating copying/loaning of entire pieces.
  7. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    That's such a tired, hackneyed old excuse, not borne out by any provable statistics. For every instance of someone illegally copying a single part, how many sales do you really believe result? A majority? Half, even? Let's be honest, the majority of illegal copying is done out of laziness, and an unwillingness to take responsibility for careless handling of music.

    I don't dispute that in this particular case there is a possibility that a further sale might result, but in reality that's all it is - a possibilty; is it so unreasonable to expect someone to fork out a couple of quid to legitimately purchase a soloist's copy?
  8. Many publishers, us included, offer the soloist parts for free. We even hand them out at our trade stands. We would certainly suggest contacting the publishers of the music.
  9. boourns

    boourns Member

    You may think it's tired, but I'm struggling to come up with many more reasons that somebody would want a copy of a single part. I've done exactly the same myself, although I contacted the composer as I happened to know him and he was happy to provide the part for free. I reassured myself I was capable of playing it, and we went ahead and bought the piece.

    Many businesses provide free samples on a trial basis, and I can't see how this is very different. Unless you would prefer that people buy your pieces 'blind' (or deaf?) and subsequently never perform them.
  10. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    How many bands, when they go to the library, get a piece out and discover that a part is missing, go to the publisher and order a legit replacement copy, in preference to borrowing the missing part from another local band and photocopying it? That's what I was alluding to in my earlier remark about being "unwilling to take responsibilty for careless handling of music."

    And you keep harping on about a single instance, which might well fall into a "grey area" of sorts. Yes, a polite approach to the publisher might well result in a free sample copy of the soloist's part, but the OP hasn't had the courtesy to do that. What galls me as a working arranger is the attitude within the brass band world that copyright law somehow doesn't matter, or doesn't apply to them. Sort of on a par with stealing a 50p chocolate bar from a major supermarket chain - a "victimless" crime. The evidence of this attitude being there in post #2, where the poster is apparently happy to announce to the world on a public forum that he's quite prepared to infringe copyright law ...
  11. boourns

    boourns Member

    I keep "harping on" about the single instance that relates to this thread. And whilst contacting the publisher for a (hopefully) complementary copy is undoubtedly the correct thing to do, I maintain that anyone who would get upset about someone obtaining a soloist part by other means is a bit uptight. In my opinion, of course.

    In the wider context, it becomes more of a grey area. If a band has actually paid for a piece but individual parts have been lost over the years, then I could justify morally, if not legally, copying the missing parts from another band's set rather than forking out for new copies.
  12. lynsey83

    lynsey83 Member

  13. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Active Member

    So if you "lose" something you consider that it is acceptable to "steal" something to replace it ?
    Interesting moral case.
  14. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Active Member

    In fairness to the OP - doc asked to borrow a copy - not for an illegal copy to be made.
  15. boourns

    boourns Member

    Which is an understandable counter argument, although your willingness to paint it black and white in such emotive terms from the outset makes me think we're unlikely to move much further on in a debate which has been done a million times on the internet already.

    However, for the sake of argument, where do you stand on bands taking backup photocopies of pieces they have bought to guard against loss? Or even scanning them into a digital database. Are they also "stealing"?

    Is this any less illegal or more justifiable?
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  16. simonium

    simonium Member

    I played a piece recently that had Black Dyke, Grimethorpe and Fairey Band stamps on it, which itself was a photocopy. I found that amusing particularly in light of the top echelon's miserable financial woes - thanks to the noble photocopier these bands have access to music and avoided spending money they didn't have. Phew!
  17. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Yes. Black and white. You only have to read the copyright notice on the original publication to answer that.

    Why is it so difficult to understand? Copying copyrighted music is a breach of copyright law; end of.
  18. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Again, it's very straightforward. If the OP borrows a legit copy, looks at it then returns it, no infringement has taken place. If, on the other hand, he borrows it, copies it, then returns it, an infringement has occurred.

    It's not rocket science.
  19. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    There is no "moral" case to be made. The parts have been lost, either through carelessness/mismanagement on the part of the band (in the shape of the librarian), or on the part of the individual members. In either case, why should the publisher be expected to bear the loss in the form of lost sales via illegal copying, when such copying is espressly forbidden under copyright law?
  20. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013

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