Championship Section Arrogance.

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Sydney Fowlcoup, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Sydney Fowlcoup

    Sydney Fowlcoup New Member

    I'm sure that there are others in our movement who have found a certain amount of arrogance displayed amongst some members of Championship Section bands toward those engaged in banding at a lower section level. It seems particularly prevalent amongst younger members of our fraternity.
    It is not, of course limited to our younger and generally university trained players, there are plenty of pompous older players out there with sectional superiority complexes.
    I recently overheard a young chap berating a very competent trumpet student because she had chosen to sign up with a second section band closely located to the championship graded band in which he played.
    On enquiry the young lady told me that at college he, and others were always having a go at her about this.
    She also went on to say that she had played on a few occasions with his band, but found them to be unfriendly, generally disgruntled, propped up with lots of deps at most rehearsals, and not really musically worthy of championship status in her opinion.
    Having heard the band in question I'm inclined to agree with her assessment of their current status.
    What makes people behave in this manner? We are after all only a very small part of the greater musical world. In my many years of playing, conducting, and the odd stint in the box, I have never felt the need to belittle those, many of whom choose to play in lower section bands.
    Anyone out there encountered this sort of behaviour ?

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  2. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    There are people everywhere that get hung up on the superficial trappings of status. Are there more in banding than there used to be? I hadn't noticed so, but that doesn't mean that it isn't so.
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  3. Sydney Fowlcoup

    Sydney Fowlcoup New Member

    But have you encountered this behaviour personally?
    I, like you have been around for a long time and the instance quoted was not an isolated one.
    I don't have any statistics to prove that its on the increase, but having spent a good portion of my life sitting through area contests and the like, it seems to be on the increase.

  4. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I could certainly nominate one or two that are more concerned with having a "championship section seat" than playing to championship section standard.

    But I don't think I've ever come across such a blatantly weird example of the phenomenon. It sounds like the product of childish thinking - someone who hasn't yet worked out a few necessary subtleties. Or else someone very unskilled on the poach!
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  5. Sydney Fowlcoup

    Sydney Fowlcoup New Member

    The former I suspect in this instance, and in this particular instance the arrogance of youth, tinged with some parental influence over a local band feud I have since learned.
    Strange how a band struggling for survival is prepared to denigrate and impede a local lower section neighbour who may help it survive in the longer term.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
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  6. Matthew

    Matthew Active Member

    Very interesting thread - what a shame that the Champ. section player felt it was acceptable to question and mock the trumpet player (who may be getting more experience in her 'lower' graded band than he was getting in the top section!).

    Having played in all sections of bands, I've experienced some wonderful and supportive people and atmospheres in all the sections over the years - however, in the top sections there are some arrogant stances, but to be fair this also can exist in the lower sections, although it might tend to be less frequent?

    Fairly recently I helped out a lower section band who I can categorically say are the friendliest and supportive bunch of people it's ever been my pleasure to meet in brass banding. On the flip side, I enquired about a position last year with a top section band and the response I got was downright rude and arrogant.

    In any section of band for me, it's about the people, whether they have fun/enjoy their playing and treating people with respect, politeness and equality. :)
  7. Mesmerist

    Mesmerist Well-Known Member

    Wise words Matthew and so true. Speaking personally, I also enjoy a challenge and need a band with a competitive element but not to the extent of snobbish rivalry.

    There can be a touch of arrogance within sections of the same band. I can think of one or two players who look down their noses at "back row" members.

    Of course everyone has it in for the 2nd Baritone, that goes without saying...(JOKE! :D)
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  8. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    Well, having heard your back row ................

    I know many a Baritone player that could walk into any seat there (apart from sop) after a couple of weeks to get the chops in !
  9. Mesmerist

    Mesmerist Well-Known Member

    Spiteful much? I wasn't referring to anyone I currently play with and I rather resent your implications about some very nice (and able) people. When I first returned to these forums I noticed how quiet it had become (although lately it seems to be busier?). I was told it was because of trolling and members feeling bullied and so leaving. I witnessed your goading of Aussie Tuba to the point he has disappeared. I also saw you taking pot shots at Marksmith on another recent thread. It's customary for percussion players to be "characters" of a band but usually their humour is genuinely funny and not designed to put people down. Perhaps I'm being oversensitive or maybe I'm right and you are behaving in a way which suggests more than a touch of arrogance in your own approach to banding?
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  10. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    Yes your being VERY over sensitive. the people I refered to have been friends of mine for years and would not take any offence. And don't EVER call me a percussionist, i'm a retired Baritonist !

    Also don't jump onto the "Bully" or "Troll" wagon when you you either don't like or don't understand someones post.

    As for your comment about me taking "Pot Shots" at Mark, I reacted to his accusational attack at me after I posted a comment along the lines of "I wish you hadn't posted that" when you had done a "woe is me post" about the adjudicators comments about OUR performance at the Midlands area. (its contesting, get used to it love).
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
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  11. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Active Member

    Folk can sometimes forget 'figures of speech' and take words literally. Certainly I've made that mistake in real life but, having seen your comments over the years, knew instantly that yours were words in jest.

    Few people know the players in other bands that well, particularly those at a great distance, and when we do then in my experience comments are mostly friendly rivalry - and if not then let them be 'like water off of a Duck's back'.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
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  12. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    <Ahem - these two are in the same band>
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  13. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    Couldn't make it up could ya ! Im happily in retirement (after nearly 40 years on and off but mainly on involvement with the band). And now just get roped in to hit the odd bit of percussion occasionally if needed, our friend has just joined. There lies the confusion I think.

    Im sure she realises her mistake, and thats why she hasn't posted in this thread since that post, even though she has posted on other threads since but ignoring this one.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
  14. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Active Member

    That's going to make for some interesting rehearsals then.

    I had thought that the two parties lived in different parts of the country (one near DT/Oxford and one in Shropshire, didn't check their locations on their profiles). Are back row Cornets any good or better than other parts of the band? Well, no slight intended but other parts of the band have equally or harder music - our first Baritone player could sit anywhere in the band and play as well as anyone else. Is it worth taking offence, not at all far better to say 'blow you' and up your game.
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  15. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Active Member

    Me to, I just don't see the need to be rude to anyone - OK, sometimes I slip but that's all part of being human with a error of judgement or a moment of bad temper. Banter, however is another thing, it's completely different from being rude or aggressive though the intent and difference might not be visible to everyone, what might be hurtful to one person wouldn't give another recipient a moments concern.

    Thinking a bit more and in a much broader context I suppose that, with particularly thick skinned people, there is a time to be rude to your friends so that your point registers with them. Surely it's better to be told something unpleasant by a friend, in a way that you will 'hear', rather than find out in more difficult circumstances?

    It's good that you don't take remarks personally. Congrat's on getting the rep' chair, particularly so being new to the band, and isn't it not long since you returned to playing too?
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
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  16. Mesmerist

    Mesmerist Well-Known Member

    Thank you. Yes I restarted playing in February this year. Still rusty but it's coming back gradually. Sadly the ability to sight read unusual rhythms was never there and doesn't appear to have improved...*sigh*
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  17. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    What a puzzling thing to say !

  18. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Active Member

    Your work ethic and natural ability will, no doubt, see you overcome difficulties and move further 'up' the band. But do expect to get your 'leg pulled' on the way, laugh and remember to shrug things off too - 'like water off of a Duck's back'.

    It must be time we got back to the original post, now what was it again ........ something to do with arrogance and the Championship Section. I'm lucky enough to overlap with and occasionally play next to some Championship Section players, in comparison my playing skills are dirt poor and we joke about them. Never have those expert players been rude to me, but IMHO it's not the section that they play in that determines whether they are pleasant or not.

    There are exceptions, but in general I find that the ablest people are typically the nicest too. Watch out for the not that able 'want to be's' and the un-resigned to it 'past its' though as they can lash out at competition.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
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  19. fartycat

    fartycat Member

    Anyways, back to the subject matter - our band Woodfalls regularly invites players from our locality to come and rehearse with us - (and no, not as a means of getting them to sign for us) but as way of opening our doors, making connections with our neighbouring bands and developing local players.

    And on that matter if you're a horn or cornet player and are free tonight (8pm) we have two empty seats - tutti horn and back row cornet - rehearsal is at 8pm and we will be tackling Fire in the Blood, Vitea Atternum, Ravenswood, Gaelforce and Resurgam.

    And on Wednesday we are looking for one back row cornet, two horns, 2nd euph, 2nd baritone and 2nd trombone - with Bob Childs conducting. Please email me on if you want to come along to either rehearsal - thanks!
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  20. Bbmad

    Bbmad Active Member

    When did this become the linen washing at Ifton Colliery thread?

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