Cancelling Cards, Yes or No??

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by JonP, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. JonP

    JonP Member

    OK so whats the fact??

    1. Is a band, according to the current rules, required to cancel a players card if it is so requested by that player? Yes or NO?

    2. If "yes", Is the band allowed to withold a card or transfer in the event of outstanding financial debt to the band arising from subs or anythig else?

    Yes or NO?? Please no opinions only facts!! (kind request)
  2. Di

    Di Active Member

  3. lewis

    lewis Member

    No the band isn't required to, and the player has no real say if the band frankly refuses. But what is the point in the band reufsing as in most cases surely the player will just refuse to play with the band they are currently signed with, making their registration pointless?!?
  4. MickM

    MickM Member

    Last edited: Feb 15, 2006
  5. lewis

    lewis Member

    I don't like to mingle too often but I'm only quoting the advice I was given as a band manager by the registry. Look forward to meeting you soon then???
  6. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Going by what I know of the Scottish rules, which aren't that much different.

    The card is the property of the Registry. It does not belong to the band or to the player. If a player is requesting a transfer then the card is issued to them along with a completed transfer form. If they wish to be cancelled then the card is returned to the registry. There is nothing in the rules to say that the band MUST drop a card upon request but if they didn't and the player appealed to the SBBA exec then I would expect that the band would have to have a good reason for the refusal. In any case as another poster has said, what would be the point in keeping as player who didn't want to be there unless the band were being a little bit vindictive.

    This sounds like a case where it is within the 28 day deadline before the areas and so the player cannot transfer to a new band in time to play at the area. Presumably the player hopes that by dropping the card, another band can pick it up as a new registration within the 28 days. In Scotland we closed this loophole. Up here, when a card is dropped it effectively must lie dormant for 28 days before another band can register the player. The player can be signed in that period but their registration will not take effect until 28 days after they were dropped by their previous band.
  7. MickM

    MickM Member

    Nice one Lewis!

    :oops: I wandered what that QUOTE box was for :wink:
  8. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    In general I don't understand why any band would want to cause hassles to players who have made the choice to leave and join another band. You sometimes hear stories of bands refusing to give some players their cards for no reason at all etc. I find this behaviour appalling.
  9. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Jon, ask Colin at the registry office. Fantastic chap and probably the only person that knows for sure.

    Opinion!!!! It is the players decision on who he plays for and the registry are obliged to cancel / transfer the card at his/her request as long as the transfer limit hasnt been passed. The financial issue is one for the band and the individual and will probably be a case for the small claims court.
  10. JonP

    JonP Member

    Hey Mr Morris!! Great to make contact, hope your well. and your far too kind.

    So i think from this that the sending back of cards at a players request is almost a gentlemans agreement with no basis in the rules?

    Obviously there are many moral issues surrounding this and im not advocating holding peoples cards, but in the event of the area, why strengthen someone elses band if you dont actually have to?? Mercinary i know, but its not Cheating!!!

    Think i may be taking this a little seriously!!!
  11. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    But then they might do the same to your band - two wrongs don't etc...
  12. Deano

    Deano Member

    Even if you hold onto a card, which my band did until a player returned all their equipment, I was told by the registrar that he would issue the player with a new card for a new band and we would have to involve the police if we wanted our equipment back.
  13. Sop_Or_Bass?

    Sop_Or_Bass? Member

    Not sure I see the issue.

    If you owe your existing band their kit back or owe them money, it is perfectly reasonable for them not to return/transfer your card to you until the outstanding items have been resolved. If you want them to turn it around quickly, better resolve the issues quickly. It may also be dependent on what your existing band's constitution & rules say about this.

    If there are no issues I think it is reasonable for the band to return your card to you/transfer in the most expedient & professional way.
  14. Boner

    Boner New Member

    all registration cards are the property of the registry. if you join a band and apply for a new registration then you need to ask your old band to cancel your card at their end.

    if they refuse then ring the registry and tell them that they are being awkward. the registry will cancel the card (after contacting the band in question).

    they cannot hold your card for unpaid subs or any other reason. i have personal experience of this. the card is the registry's. they can cancel it if the band gets stupid.
  15. Boner

    Boner New Member

    this is bull. they canot hold your card for any reason!

    any outstanding money or equipment is a civil debt and nothing to do with the registry (or the police as someone else suggested)
  16. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    It is indeed a civil issue and one that you would either need the police for (theft of property) or the small claims court (money is owed). Have been known to do it with a bunch of large banders though!
  17. Deano

    Deano Member

    I know what you are saying is true, but shouldn't the registry help the band that is losing the player by insisting that all equipment is returned before they can sign for another band, I think that this is the case in Scotland. This would also stop all the band hopping that is currently going on with players sending their cards back after every contest.

    IMHO if a card is surrendered it should be held for 28 days and if the player wants to register with another band within that period it should be classed as a transfer.

    Money is a different matter, the band should not let the player get in debt.
  18. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    But that does penalise some people in certain cases. Last year for instance I move from Portsmouth to Yorkshire 2 weeks before the areas in Bradford. I was able to cancel my card with Woodfalls and sign in time to play with Emley. Woodfalls were more than happy to cancel my card cos it was obvious I couldn't play with them at the areas.
    If the 28 day rule would have been in force I'd have not been able to play for Emley and would have been there at the areas just watching.
  19. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    I dont think this is so easy, if 2 or 3 in the band are in financial strife (students / those with several family members in the band / those just having a bad time) then would you stop them playing at a contest if they couldnt afford the hotel / bus fees. NO, at least I would hope not.

    I think the registry do a fantastic job and don't think we should expect them to be a brass band movement police force too. It is the bands responsibility to make sure these situations dont arrise, do you really think there is any chance of getting kit / money back if you restrict a players movement to another band? What ever happened to a player leaving a band on good terms? Do friendships have to end because someone is no longer sitting in your band? No, and a friend will always do their best to make sure all outstanding issues are resolved eventually.
  20. Lauradoll

    Lauradoll Active Member

    You could have sent a letter to the appeals committee at the registy to explain that you had moved to a different area and so would need to transfer to another band. I did this and was allowed an "extra" transfer last year as my relocation meant it was impossible to remain with my current band. They are kind souls at the registry.

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