Can you over oil a valve?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by tubafran, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Just putting together an Information Sheet on instrument care and maintenance and have come across the following comment

    "There is no negative effect from over oiling the valve! You can't use too much -- don't be stingy! (Take care where the excess oil goes -- don't get it on your clothes, carpeting, or furniture.) "

    can over oiling cause problems?
  2. ISBBBb2

    ISBBBb2 Member

    Chesterfield, Derbyshire
    Other than the excess 'gunge' that usualy forms at the bottom of the valve from using valve oil I doubt it very much?.
  3. Jacob Larsen

    Jacob Larsen Member

    Stavanger - Norway
    Yes... you can easily over oil a valve... An if you play too fast it will burst into flames.... :)
  4. GingerMaestro

    GingerMaestro Active Member

    There are some grey areas as to how much oil you should put on your valves.

    Some instruments require very little oiling and run better nearly dry where others need constant oiling and you never seem to be able to put enough on before it needs oiling again.

    I think the best advice you can give is:-

    When oiling the valves:-

    1 remove any moisture from the valve with a soft cloth
    2 apply a little oil and re-insert the valve checking that the up and down motion is free and slick
    3 repeat step 2 until the above mottion is reached
    4 check each tim you take the instrument out of the case and follow steps 2 & 3 accordingly

    Only my opinion but it works for me
  5. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Washington, DC, USA
    Any excess oil will simply drip out of the hole on the bottom of the valve and ruin your clothes ...

    Oiling a dirty valve can often lead to excessive build-up of grunge in the valve, which often makes it worse. A clean valve is a happy valve ;)

    GingerMaestro's technique seems like the best way to go to me. Make sure that any cloth you use does not give off any lint, because a valve covered in lint does not work well. It's also sometimes a good idea to wipe down the inside of the valve casing (remove the valve, remove the bottom cap, put a bit of oil around the top of the casing and then use your soft cloth to spread it over the inside of the casing).
  6. Shaggy

    Shaggy New Member

    I would be interested to know how much slide oil is too much when it is applied to the Conductors baton during the break in a gig, while the conductor is at the BBQ waiting for his third steak baguette? especially when the conductor has a habit of putting the stick in his mouth while sorting out his scores?

    A Bass trombonist I know has a couple of supplimentary questions regarding this fascinating topic, firstly what is the best way to clean slide oil off your band uniform after the condutor has smeared the back of your jacket with the stuff, and secondly, and rather more seriously, what are the long term health effects of having a bottle of slide oil stuck up your.............(rest of post passed on to Sheffield police for further inquiries)
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2006
  7. Have to pretty much agree with first few comments - over oiling a valve simply ends up with the oil dripping out of the hold in the 'sump' of the valve, but adding more and more oil to a valve which is sticking because it is dirty won't sort the problem out & may make it worse by adding / redistributing dust & grime each time you take it out.
  8. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    A lot of people chuck gallons of oil onto their valves, but often the cause of sticking valves is somewhere else. This is in no way definitive, but try going down a checklist;

    1) Is the valve clean?
    2) Are the valve guide/slot clean?
    3) Is it lined up correctly?
    4) Does the valve 'spin' in it's casing? (The valve should turn all the way round in it's casing without catching)
    5) Are the pads clean and at the correct thickness?
    6) Is it a new Sovereign? (Don't get me started on Besson's penny pinching; stainless steel is not a bearing material, but why did they use it for valves? Because it's cheaper than Monel):mad:

    Once you have gone down the checklist, you shouldn't have a sticky valve. Be aware though, that some valve oils are not compatible with each other. For example 'Blue Juice' is great stuff, but it reacts with other valve oils, so you need to make sure that you only use one brand.

    tMPers, feel free to add to the checklist, it's just off the top of my head.
  9. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - :-? ... I'm a little bit worried about this one as valves are sometimes hand-lapped to ensure good fit. Spinning valves could undo this work!
  10. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Well-Known Member

    Farnham, Surrey, UK
    Getzen use stainless steel over Monel valves and the have one of the finest reputations in valves.
    Bauerfine use stainless steel and are the best valves I have come across.
    Monette are now making their own valves (which I believe to be steel)

    Nowt wrong with steel for valves, if they are the ones using it - don't generalise because of Besson
  11. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Southport, Lancashire
    I've found that cleaning the bore of the valve is just as important as cleaning the valve itself. I use a plastic chopstick. wrap a lint-free cloth round it and gently push through the bore.
    As for oil, if you have enough on to cover the surface of the valve any more is waste, and it's dear stuff!
    Regualr washing the instrument out is a big help too, or you just blow more crud from the tubes on to your newly clean valves.
  12. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    West Midlands
    Dont talk to me about Valves at the moment my instrument as almost been thrown through the window as the valves are a utter waste of time:ranting2: :ranting2:
  13. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    New York City
    ... because that was a useful addition to the thread... :rolleyes:
  14. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Hadleigh, Essex
    You taking up trombone then, Ian?
  15. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    I'm having a problem with mine too - especially when we've been out playing in 30+ degrees - does this kind of heat have an effect on the valves?
  16. matti_raz

    matti_raz Member

    The heat evaporates Valve Oil a lot faster meaning you need to oil them alot more than cooler times, say Winter......... When Valves can survive from November till February without oil ;) *AHEM*
  17. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Almost certainly. The heat will cause the metal to expand - meaning the valves will grow and the bores will shrink slightly closing up the clearance. I've noticed the valves on my flug have been a little sluggish too since we've had the hot weather.
  18. matti_raz

    matti_raz Member

    ^ and that too! ;)
  19. And of course, this effect will be most noticeable if the valves and the casings are made of different materials - e.g. steel/brass/copper and monel - rather than made of the same stuff.....
  20. Robhibberd29

    Robhibberd29 Active Member

    Well oiled

    Yes Ive been at it again too much slide oil on a baton is when it flicks off as you conduct.thankfully this didnt happen as Shaggy appeared to enjoy the taste.The jacket's come up a treat thanks but havin trouble with bottom burps since the insertion of the bottle.Police inquiries are ongoing.:-?

    I love getting well oiled ooer missus.
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