Butlins mineworkers 2008

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by iaindrum, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. DesfordHorn

    DesfordHorn New Member

    100% agree with your points & many thanks for the compliments towards the band's performance - we had a fun weekend (with the exception of a personal tragedy which befell one of our front row cornet players 10 minutes before taking the stage on Saturday) and can only see this event going from strength to strength.
  2. stewie76

    stewie76 Member

    although it's over 20 years old I can never hear enough of Snell's astounding version of Daphnis and Chloe.

    The amazing thing about this piece was that when I took the band for the Brass in Concert Contest at the Sage, we still found wrong notes amoungst the many thousands arranged,and put some changes in the percussion parts that were sent to us by Howard Snell, 23 years after we first performed the piece!This gives an insight to its complexity.
  3. I entirely agree with a number of previous posts, that if the adjudicators are looking for something specific from an entertainment programme, then broad guidance should be given to bands in advance.

    This IMHO is not the same as guidance on interpretation of a set work, and, as has been intimated earlier, a traditional programme played well should not be penalised for content by the 'music judges'.

    To be honest, I'm not quite sure what the Major and David Read were asked to actually mark, or, if there was a playing and content element, what the weightings between the two were. If playing quality alone was their responsibility, then their comments re content whilst interesting, are entirely superfluous.

    The irony here is that the 'entertainment' element was officially adjudicated by three members of Butlins staff, and they awarded their first prize of £1,000 to the band that Messrs. Parkes and Read adjudged to have been next to last! Perhaps entertainment and innovation mean different things to different people.

    I believe that if this format continues in future,then a simple statement from the 'music' judges, together with published weightings of points between playing and entertainment, would prevent lots of wasted hours in the bandroom, hoping, (quite possibly in vain), to hit the spot with that particular years adjudicator(s).

    Finally, congratulations to all the prize winners, (great playing Desford), and whilst I'm sure that whilst we on TMP may never agree entirely on this issue, I think we can be confident that our audiences had a superb weekend of high quality banding, for which much credit must go to Stan Lippeat and his team, and all the staff at Butlins Skegness.
  4. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I think that what band geeks (of which I'm proud to be one!) enjoy and find entertaining differs wildly from what Joe Public, as represented by Butlins Redcoats, find entertaining. Also let's not forget that Redcoats are the "entertainment" staff at Butlins, their entire job is to know what their guests enjoy and provide it for them, so this was not an uninformed judgement. Sometimes it wouldn't hurt us to think about what constitutes "entertainment" to the audiences who pay to come and listen to our concerts.

    Anyway, notwithstanding the usual discussions and arguments, what a great weekend. One of the best weekends of banding I've ever had, and I'll definitely be back. If all our major contests were that much fun, we'd all be beating players off with the proverbial poo-coated stick!
  5. Butlins Mineworkers "008

    Thanks for highlighting that Andy because it's exactly my point!

    I have no problem with the Redcoats making that award, or whom they made it to (congrats BWB), but if that's the way the entertainment element is judged, then the Major and David Read should confine their deliberations to playing quality only, with the best PLAYED programme in 1st place, and worst PLAYED in last, irrespective of their personal likes and dislikes on content.

    As to audiences, how many of us can remember the furore of a few years ago when Grimethorpe were 'innovative' at the Buxton Opera House, and Brighouse performed in similar genre at the Gala Theatre in Durham. If I remember correctly, in each venue the thriving expectant pre concert crowd almost turned into a baying mob as the demands for refunds reverberated louder than the bands themselves! Needless to say both venues were much emptier at the end of each concert than at the start.

    You are right Andy, there is a difference between Brass Band 'geeks' and audiences, and if the 'music' adjudicators, (assuming they are marking content also?), give us a clue as to which one we are supposed to be entertaining, it would prevent many wasted hours rehearsing an inappropriate programme in the bandroom.
  6. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Yes, true enough. I did wonder quite what the comments were getting at when there were separate judges for the "entertainment" prize. I wonder if Messrs Parkes and Read were given a "judge the playing standard only" brief and exceeded it, or whether they were told to consider both standard and content (which it seems they did). If the latter, why have the Redcoats judging the entertainment prize?

    So I suppose I can see your point, although as an audience member I'd still rather have the variety we got last Sunday rather than have a "pre-warned" set of bands putting out 10 broadly similar programmes. I can absolutely see why it would be frustrating from a playing point of view, but there were getting on for 2000 people in the hall on Sunday who enjoyed a wide variety of programming that they might not have got if the adjudicators had issued the guidelines suggested earlier.

    As far as "wasted" rehearsals goes, I can sympathise, but as an audience member I didn't feel anyone's efforts were wasted. Of course if the only reason for going is to win a prize, then yes, every band who didn't feature in the prizes wasted their effort, whether because their programme choices didn't meet with approval or because they didn't play well enough. Depends on your motivation for playing in the contest...

    (PS In the concert examples you gave, I seem to remember that the promoters didn't make it clear that the concerts were "contemporary" in nature, so the audience that turned up were expecting marches, hymns and the Floral Dance, and got Grimethorpe Aria. Given that a big chunk of the crowd on Sunday were lower section band members, myself included, there was never much danger of them getting a nasty surprise!)
  7. Brian

    Brian Member

  8. Butlins 2008

    Quite right Andy, I do seem to remember that being the case in Durham. Just let your mind wander though the conversation that might have gone on in the promoters office!!!

    ......... 'ear Fred we're under a bit o' pressure to shift abaat a thousand o' them Brass Band tickets at twelve quid a pop. It's them that 'ad that smash 'it wi' that Wogan bloke from the telly. Can you sort the PR'................'Peice o' cake 'Arry, wot's it say on their marketin' blurb'............O, 'err, yeh, summat abaat innovative, contemporary and avant garde. 'Ow do yer spell that in English 'Arry avant garde...........mmmm better make a note o' this for the printers Fred, it's definitely spelt FLORA'. .....
  9. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    Surely a programs musical content should be commented on by the adjudicators and form part of their marking scheme.
    If a band put on 5 or 6 short comedy numbers it might be very entertaining for the lay man but would not be a balanced musical program. Similarly it would be 'wrong' if a band played just 2 long ballet overtures no matter how well they were played.
    In my opinion Read and Parks are not stepping out of their remit at all by saying Boring, boring lets hear something new.
  10. Shell

    Shell Member

  11. ISBBBb2

    ISBBBb2 Member

    Cornerstone brass will be there! first contest for them!
  12. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    Not at this one - its last years#
  13. ISBBBb2

    ISBBBb2 Member

    Where does the time go!

    ok so next one!
  14. and who are cornerstone brass...................??
  15. ISBBBb2

    ISBBBb2 Member

    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  16. ISBBBb2

    ISBBBb2 Member

    New band in the yorkshire 1st section. have a look on their facebook page if your interested
  17. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    Please see 2009 thread
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2008

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