Butlins mineworkers 2008

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by iaindrum, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. robcav

    robcav Member

    I am somewhat bewildered by the comments of the esteemed adjudicator David Read as reported on 4BR in relation to his and Major Parkes' approach to the adjudication of the entertainment section of the Championship section, which seems to be neatly summed up by the soundbite, "We have rewarded innovation". But what does that really mean and does that facet of the bands' performances fall within the remit of the approach to the adjucation of entertainment contests, particularly when the 'entertainment' value (whatever that means) is being judged separately by two other judges? It sounds as if the venerable judges have rewarded innovation over and above something else. Now I only heard one band on Sunday so I can't and wouldn't comment on the wisdom of the final placings. However, I would be very surprised if adjudicators of this calibre didn't award the top slots to the bands who actually played the best according to the usual criteria. Don't get me wrong, I welcome the sentiment that bands need to "move forward", play something "new and different" and not "hear the same music that has been played over and over again these last ten years, but something that was new and interesting, something that had been given thought and explored new styles." (Quotations from 4BR attributed to David Read) But this doesn't square with the actual result, given that certainly two and of the items played by the winning band appeared on a recording of theirs well over twenty years ago and a third appeared on a Hammonds' recording (How many years is it since they ceased recording activities?) Don't misundestand me, these are wonderful pieces of music and were no doubt played superbly by Desford. But I do find it confusing and somewhat worrying when such bold pronouncements are made which fly in the face of the evidence. Perhaps it's just me, but I would want to win a contest on the basis of that which should be and I'm sure was at the forefront of the adjudicator's mind - the musical merits of the performance - not some amorphous concept like 'innovation'.
  2. DanB

    DanB Member


    Morning Ian - Desford's opener "When The Saints Fantasy" was composed by my big brother Leigh, I believe specially for the day!
  3. DanB

    DanB Member

    Sorry - you're right, drop the "when the" - it's just "Saints Fantasy" (Leigh Baker)... Cheers!
  4. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Easily solved - refuse to take the stage until the contest controller has been summoned to give the definitive verdict.

    The charitable viewpoint of this is that the stewards/helpers (some of whom are not banders, and certainly not percussionists) have been told before the contest that they have to chivvy bands along and are maybe overdoing it a bit. Possibly if you just said "look, we've practised in a different layout, we can't play it in this layout, it's getting moved so either help or disqulify us" they'd take the point!
  5. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member


    Isn't that exactly what they did? Wngates were given the most points for the performance on Sunday 195, Desford received 194. I think their comments relate specifically to the two pieces used by Wingates which were not your usual "entertainment" contest programme items. I spoke to a player from Wingates who said they were uncertain as to how those items would go down with, shall we say "the old guard"; however it clearly went down well with them and they were. Wingates were also given 2nd place in the test piece however the 2 point difference kept them in 2nd position overall. What a difference a point makes.
  6. JR

    JR Member

    Bit risky and rather nerve wracking for all concerned I would have thought.
    In my experience these days percussionists (and conductors) don't mind a set format as long as the positioning is communicated well in advance so the players can practice in those positions in the bandroom.
    Not being allowed use of your own side drum is a bit daft though!

    John R
  7. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    A pub, Surrey, UK
    Doesn't always work, though. Perhaps at Champ. Sect. level one might expect that percussionists were competent in all instruments, and can manage with a fixed layout and deployment of forces, but at lower section level adjustments often have to be made for differing levels of ability. (Not all tuned percussionists can play snare, for example, or one might co-opt a "spare" brass player to play bass drum, or some other percussion instrument that does not require "specialist" training.) Sometimes the only way to make best use of one's available resources involves changing the layout of the equipment. It seems wrong to me that contest organisers should put obstacles in the way of such bands by being inflexible. What was wrong with the "old" way used at many contests where the stage crew had a diagram of your required layout in advance? I appreciate timing of a contest is important, but allowing adequate time for percussion set-up should really be factored in, I would have thought.
  8. jezza23361

    jezza23361 Member

    If the adjudicators are told by the organisers to judge based on an agenda such as that stated 'to reward innovation' rather than to judge good varied music played well should they not communicate this to the bands prior to the contest.
  9. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Wingates programme was both innovative and "good varied music played well" - so they covered both requirements. I could hardly see the organisers telling these adjudicators only to reward the tried and tested. I would also doubt they'd tell them what criteria they should adopt when awarding points.
  10. Dago

    Dago Member


    Are you really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  11. blasterbates

    blasterbates Member

    the pub
    Ours did (just), only for our drummer to trip over it where the plug was, sending loose cables flying across the stage in one of the quietest bits. I was able to repair the damage in my 68 bars rest (approx) at the time though. Suppose it's the shed-builders equivalent of dropping a mute onto the floor.
  12. The view from the Chair

    The view from the Chair New Member

    I've added in what I can [Below], again allowing for things misheard.

    1. Festival music for Vienna - Richard Strauss (arr. Ken Johnson)
    2. Summer Isles (from The Hymn of the Highlands) - euph feature (Philip Sparke)
    3. Fireball Polka - Strauss (arr. Tommy Dodd)
    4. Fives and Threes (John Golland)
    5. The Battle of Trafalgar (Albert Emms)
    1. Radetsky March (with apologies to Strauss!) arr. Alfred Laus
    2. A Short Ride in a Brass Machine (Andrew Baker)
    3. Tonight (arr. Freeh)
    4. Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (arr. Farr)
    5. Kopanitsa - perc. feature (Andrew Baker)
    6. The Cuckoo - Legendary bass solo! (Elgar Howarth)
    7. 2nd Movement from Shostokovitch's 10th Symphony
    1. Saints Fantasy - Leigh Baker
    2. Stardust - trom. feature (arr. Geldard)
    3. Honey Pie (arr. Sandy Smith)
    4. Deep Harmony (arr. Leigh Baker)
    5. The Clock with the Dresden Figures (arr. Snell) - Albert Kettlewee
    6. Daphnis and Chloe (arr. Snell)
    SWT Woodfalls:
    1. Walking With Heroes (Lovatt-Cooper)
    2. Devil's Galop {Dick Barton theme} - Charles Williams
    3. A Little Prayer - euph feature (arr. R Childs) -Evelyn Glennie
    4. Post Horn Galop / pandemonium! - post horn(s) feature
    5. Vitae Eternum - Paul Lovatt Cooper
    1. 76 Trombones (S Kerwin)
    2. Silverado (B.Broughton arr. GJ Green)
    3. Be My Love - euph feature [Nicholas Brodsky arr. Ray Farr]
    4. Huntin' Wabbits ( Gordon Goodwin arr.S Kerwin)
    5. Lord of all Hopefulness (arr. Downie)
    6. Finale from Checkmate ( Arthur Bliss arr. Ball)
    Mount Charles:
    1. Be a Clown (arr. Fernie)
    2. Tanga - trumpet feature arr. Ray Gilliand
    3. She's Leaving Home - trom feature (arr. A Duncan)
    4. Jubilee (Paul Drury)
    5. The Water is Wide - front row feature (arr. A Duncan)
    6. Finale for "Swan Lake"
    United Co-op Milrow:
    1. Praise (Heaton)
    2. A Time for Peace - Flugel Horn feature (Peter Graham)
    3. Mask of Zorro - James Horner
    4. Irish Carol arr. Philip Harper
    5. Coronation of Boris Godunov
    Bactiguard Wire Brass:
    1. Malaguana
    2. Autumn Leaves - Joseph Kosma
    3. Children of Sanchez - trumpet feature (arr. Reid Gilje)
    4. Sing, Sing, SIng - Louis Prima
    1. Summon the Heroes - John Williams
    2. Wicked (L Pankhurst)
    3. Fling (A Crossley) - xylophone feature
    4. A Little Prayer - Evelyn Glennie
    5. Extreme Makeover (last section) (Johan De Meij)
    Yorkshire Imperial:
    1. Amazonia (from Windows of the World) (Peter Graham)
    2. Be My Love - euph feature
    3. Shostokovitch Folk Festival (arr. Snell)
    4. Liszteria - xylophone feature arr. Sandy Smith
    5. 1812 Overture - arr. Frank Wright
    To Woodenflugel :-
    Please correct as necessary, and next year you could try and grab Frank Renton's notes when he comes offstage. He managed the whole proceedings with beatifully informative links and wonderful asides.
  13. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    Going back to the rehearsal topic, they could have the draw Friday night say around 5:30 ( too late for most bands to change travelling arrangements thus circumventing the pre-draw issue ) and have pre-booked rehearsal slots for each draw number. So say numbers 1 to 5 are Friday night at 7 then the others are in the morning of the next day.
  14. Mr_Euniverse

    Mr_Euniverse Member

    I think it should be possible (with a bit of intelligence) for both testpiece and entertainments section to be done both on saturday. One in the morning and one in the evening. Making a much more enjoyable weekend for us in the champs section.

    It was so weird having no alcohol and watching the Grimstein Oompah Band when everyone else is getting lashed.

    And a more general note can we just abolish Sunday night contests?????? Butlins, Swansea (area), Pontins, Wychavon (I think) . All of these I can't stand as you can't celebrate as you've got work the next day and you arrive back home far too late.
    Blackpool is the best contest of the year by a mile!
  15. GarethPritchard

    GarethPritchard New Member

    It's actually as above :)
  16. Owen S

    Owen S Member

    Interesting, thanks. I'll try to catch that this week some time then. Good to hear bands getting national exposure again.
  17. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    A pub, Surrey, UK
    Not sure that would work either; not everyone can be there by 7 on Friday. Many of the Egham players for example travel up after work on Friday, arriving late evening (10/11pm-ish), thereby avoiding an horrendously early start on the Saturday. People wouldn't want to be forced to take time off work on Friday, especially if they then arrived and found we didn't have a Friday rehearsal.
  18. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    Just to complete the arrangers
  19. GJacko

    GJacko Member

    We did. I recon no bands 'til ours used it plugged in. One band also played it without the pedal. Didn't do us much good though :frown: . Played well but only 12th. Never mind, still won youngest player :clap: .
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2008
  20. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    It's not all about the Championship Section, though, is it? It's about the whole banding community, and judging by 2,000 plus people packing out centre stage many wanted to see the entertainments elements. A lot less would be able to do so if it was all on the Saturday.
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