British Open - A Makeover Required?

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by David Mann, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    Am I right to assume that the purpose of the British Open is to identify that year's best band? If so I'd like to propose some ideas for debate.

    Every year there is a discussion about the rights and wrongs of the adjudication at the Open (and most other contests) and I feel there will never be 100% agreement about how to classify around 20 bands into the correct order. Age of judges/ experience / number / in a box / in the open / marking to a technical template / whatever, some bands will be placed low and not like the fact. With the Open a poor placing is made worse with the prospect of relegation to the Grand Shield, and being subjected to the vagueries of adjudication even to re-qualify.

    I'd like to see the adjudicators tasked with identifying only the top few bands, perhaps 8 or 9, and picking the overall winners. Those bands automatically come back next year. Every other band has to go to the Grand Shield whether 10th or 20th. Next year the top 10 or so in the Grand Shield join the automatically qualified bands in the Open. Same process for the Cup / Trophy. Remarks will still be required.

    Advantages:


    • Relegation is not such a big deal, if you are good enough you come straight back.

    • Judges concentrate on winners, not splitting hairs over 16th / 17th place.

    • Grand Shield will contain a better class of bands and there will be more to play for.

    • A fast improving band gets a crack at the open more quickly.

    Against:


    • The queue of bands wishing to join the Open process will need to be considered.

    • Fewer bands will know for sure whether they will be in the Open until after the Grand Shield, and will be unable to plan for the Open weekend (perhaps losing a paid job).

    Discuss / develop (in a positive manner, hopefully)!
     
  2. Columbo

    Columbo Member

    I agree with this. Every top section player should get the opportunity to play in the Open at some point in their playing career. As things stand, the likelyhood of a Trophy or Cup band playing in the Open is slim if not impossible. It would also restrict the elitist environment or 'super league'. Its fine to have these great bands and an example of great players who have achieved though hard graft, I agree, but its always nice to see an outsider get a good result, albeit a one off at times.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  3. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    The only change I would like to see is a 30 second applause rule. If the bands do not leave the stage after the set time then penalty points should kick in.
     
  4. Kjata

    Kjata Member

    I think that it's a good idea, but my only concern from the perspective of an ambitious 17 year old ie me lol, who wants to play in these contests, is that will this dilute the playing in the open. This surely is the nature of the top contests like the open. It is harder to win than the national finals! I want to have to work at getting in, it will make the experience all the more enjoyable!
     
  5. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    OMG!.... You want to change the amount of applause allowed?....That will sort it all out then...... Problem solved.....Well done!
     
  6. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    I think that the proposal will actually strengthen the Open as it will reflect current form more closely . It's currently harder to win than the Nationals because bands must be placed very highly in successive levels of qualification to even get to Symphony Hall. Expanding on the original objective, I'd like to have the 20 or so best bands that year fighting it out, not one or two of them only there because of a high placing 2 years before. I hope you do get to play there, it's a great experience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  7. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    If you've actually been you will know how certain bands abuse the goodwill of the audience, milking applause by making sections stand up in turn, then solist players inturn, all the band stand up, sit down, principle cornet stand up sit down, band stands up again, sits down. Conductor bows, band stand up again ad infunitum. And its regardless of our well the performance went. It is done as cynical attempt to influence the judges.

    If by your poor attempt at sarcasm, you are trying to prove yourself a wit, then let me assure you, you are only half way there.
     
  8. Pav

    Pav Member

    Just stop clapping.

    Why does everything in the world have to be solved by more and more rules & regulations?
     
  9. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    Any thread placed on here in the next 12 months that you don't upset/alienate people with your comments?...

    It's a long shot boys and girls

    100/1

    However, you're great entertainment value Donna, they should invite you to BICC on your own :wink:
     
  10. Ali

    Ali Member

    I totally disagree with these radical changes. The Open is the one contest that most players aim to perform in. Its not a right, its a privilage to be there! It may mean that some of the best players never get a chance to play there but they are usually snapped up by the competeing bands and get a chance anyway. It can take years of hard graft to get there and its the pinnacle of most players careers! To say that only the top 8 stay there and the rest go down is ludicrous. That could mean that years and years of work to get there has been undone by one result! At least the relegation process is pretty straight forward and the bands know what is expected to survive there.


    Originally Posted by Kjata
    I think that it's a good idea, but my only concern from the perspective of an ambitious 17 year old ie me lol, who wants to play in these contests, is that will this dilute the playing in the open. This surely is the nature of the top contests like the open. It is harder to win than the national finals! I want to have to work at getting in, it will make the experience all the more enjoyable!

    Totally agree Kjata. It will dilute the playing field . No offence to the qualifiers of the Nationals but look at the line up. Its not the best is it? The Nationals tend to be weaker because of the lack of players or bands etc in that perticular area. Even the piece isnt as hard! The Open is the boy! Its the one we all want to do. Its the creme de la creme of British Banding! Look at the standard of bands there and then compare it to the Nationals. No contest!!! Ive worked my a*** off to get to a level where Im lucky enough to compete at the contest. Its not a given for me!

    David, here is what I think (and its my opinion only, so dont shoot me down or tell me Im right or wrong, like so many other threads do!!!!).
    Advantages:


    Relegation is not such a big deal, if you are good enough you come straight back.
    Sellers did this a couple of years ago. It proves that it can happen. But then look how long it took Leyland to get back. How long could it take Reg Vardy???
    Judges concentrate on winners, not splitting hairs over 16th / 17th place.
    All the bands deserve to be there and as such put themselves in a position to be judged. Win or come 17th!
    Grand Shield will contain a better class of bands and there will be more to play for.
    This is already the hardest comp to get out of in many peoples minds. Why make it harder?
    A fast improving band gets a crack at the open more quickly.
    Thats not the point of the Open. Its for the best is it not?

    Against:


    The queue of bands wishing to join the Open process will need to be considered.
    What, like before the Senior Cup and Throphy came back? Give us a break. Thats why these comps are back. To give everyone a fair crack at the whip. The best will progress.
    Fewer bands will know for sure whether they will be in the Open until after the Grand Shield, and will be unable to plan for the Open weekend (perhaps losing a paid job).
    Or have CD's or are playing at the Bridgewater etc. Thats not an option really is it? And the fact that it would add yeat another contest to an already packed year is not really viable is it? Think costs.

    Just my thoughts people.
     
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  12. Ali

    Ali Member

    I forgot to say, please leave the Open as it is. Its the best contest, the best managed and run, the best venue and the best location. WHen things get messed with, it can go oh so wrong. Look at how the Masters has changed. You may agree or not, but I for one do not think that the changes improved that contest. Not one iota! And because of the fall out there, we got the English Nationals! Yet another contest. More expenditure. More family time given up. More financial commitments from the players who travel hundreds of miles a year already for the cause. You may tweek it here and there but please, nothing too radical.
     
  13. Ali

    Ali Member

    Disagree mate. As I said in a previous post, its a privilage. Not a right! THose who work the hardest will get an oppertunity at some point or other. :)

    You may disagree mind.
     
  14. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    I have been dear. A few times. I was on stage. I didnt have a stopwatch to time the applause just a cornet in my hand. After the hundreds of hours put in by the players around me I enjoyed the applause and felt it was deserved on every occassion.
    The last thing you need after that amount of work and pressure is having to worry about how long your allowed to stand there and take your ****** applause!
    If the amount of applause bothers you go take the opportunity to go to the toilet/read your study score/update your programme with your personal thoughts on how the cream of Banding performed. Then when you come home you can make suggestions which will help to shape the future of the British Open. Helpful ones about the APPLAUSE!!! Lord save me!
     
  15. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    Thanks Paddy. That would be a poor bet for anyone because I just cant help but bite!
     
  16. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    :clap: I'm not here to shoot anyone down, I don't know if either you or I are right or wrong, and I value your opinion. It's a shame that on the other thread the achievements of the winners have been clouded by all kinds of issues. I'd like to have a system where in any given year, the best bands are on stage for the Open and give it their best shot. I take your point about the Nationals, and that's why we don't and shouldn't have any regionalisation in the Open, just the current best bands.
     
  17. BariPower

    BariPower Member

    I think your suggestion would unfortunately take out the prestige and sense of achievement of playing in the open. Nice idea but unless I've really earned it , its not quite the same!
     
  18. Ali

    Ali Member

    Im not here to shoot anyone down either. My opinon is just that. I believe that it could be right buit Im prepared to hear that It may also be wrong.
     
  19. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    Just for the Record Al. Your opinions and thoughts make just about the most sense out of this thread! Thats just my opinion. If it isnt broken, dont fix it!
     
  20. jamie m

    jamie m New Member

    Yet another thread that could be productive and provide a genuine snapshot of people's equally valuable opinions on the adjudication process taken into the gutter within 2 pages!

    Good work guys. Why make things better for everyone when the same pillocks can hijack the thread and slag each other off? Get a life
     
  21. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    Yes this may be as such, but our comments are about the topic in hand. Was yours Jamie? I think not. Now, back to the debate about the very important matter of applause.
     
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