Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Statto, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. Statto

    Statto Member

    The latest rankings table is published and available here

    Click on band names to reveal 3-year contest history.

    Special mention of Ashton-under-Lyne for their spectacular reappearance in the top 50 :clap:

    Does it fairly represent the relative merits of British bands at present?

  2. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    Good website - really good in fact.

    Would it be possible to go as low as the fourth section in the rankings? It'd be fantastic to be able to have a complete UK league table which you could then filter by region too. The points would need rejigging quite a lot so that even bands who finished last in the 4th section out of 20+ bands would get some points.

    It'd be great, but probably impossible to achieve!
  3. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Would you be able to show more than just the top 50? Top 200 would be interesting.... (and also allow comparisons with the 4br ranking to see if their system really is as broken as some of us think it is!)
  4. Jimmy_2121

    Jimmy_2121 Member

    Good site, but I'm still not sure about the points system. How can it be 18 points for a win at Butlins and only 16 for a win at the Europeans?
    Bearing in mind also, 15.20 for 6th in the Open, 15.5 for 5th in the English Nationals and 20 for a win at the Grand Shield.
    Things here seem just as skewed as 4br.
  5. Statto

    Statto Member


    First thing to say about the ranking points system is that there is no perfect system! It will always be possible to identify apparent anomalies but the ranking points available are purely a function of which bands were playing in a particular contest and how they are ranked.

    The higher the ranking of bands in a contest, and the more of them that there are, then the higher the available points. The system ignores the alleged 'prestige' of a contest, which partly explains the European 'anomaly', and is instead based entirely on the field on the day.

    The British Open is clearly a helluva lot more difficult to win than the Grand Shield and this is reflected by the available points being double for the winners.

    The English National might not be quite as strong this year but last year's field featured 5 of the top 10 bands and 11 of the top 20. Not bad in a 14-band field and hence understandably very close to British Open quality. The ranking points reflect this.

    Butlins this year had 5 top-20 bands appearing so again, quite a competitive field,but quite clearly nothing like as prestigious to win as the European. However, in ranking terms, Cory had only to beat three other bands and the ranking points available are accordingly quite low.

    Feedback is great though so keep it coming!

  6. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    You've clearly never been stuck in the Grand Shield ;)

    There never will be a fair ranking system based on contest results as not every band competes in every contest.
    One point coming from that is that no matter what ranking system you look at, foreign bands are never fairly represented on the overall list as they compete less.
  7. Statto

    Statto Member

    Absolutely spot on, and your current band is a very good example of this! What was it last year, National and SIDDIS double, plus 3rd in the Euros, and you scraped a place in the top 20:-?

    I don't rule out a European ranking at some stage but not before there are at least 3 or 4 truly international contests featuring the top bands taking place across Europe each year.

    Will continental bands be tempted to compete in a contest such as this?
    That would help towards a Euro ranking.
  8. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    very doubtful, the europeans is our jolly that we (all :() splash out on, those purse strings don't tend to loosen much in these times of financial doom and gloom ;)
    4 grand is good money for UK bands but a lot of the contests over here already give that much.
    Maybe if they enticed british airways or sas as a main sponsor!!
  9. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Anything? I'm guessing you must have a bigger rank than 50 to allow for bands moving up and down.... care to share it?
  10. hornydevil

    hornydevil Member

    Our band Blackburn & Darwen were pleased to get in the top 50 (42 in fact) however we got no points for winning Butlins & Pontins 2009!
  11. tkhbss

    tkhbss Member

    This has to be a better system than the one used by 4barsrest. In the last two years Black Dyke have won two successive Nationals and the English National as well as coming runner up at the Open last year and yet they are still 3rd and less than a hundred points clear of Grimethorpe in 4th place who frankly havent been on the scene at all in the last two years. Their system is clearly flawed.

    Well done for this great website. A source of all sorts of clear information!
  12. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    the two bands above them havn't exactly done poorly though.
  13. Statto

    Statto Member

    There are generally between 150 and 200 bands that have rankings points at any particular time but I do not honestly think the ranking is representative much below the top 50 as these bands are not competing in enough so-called 'ranking events'.

    The solution to extending the ranking to say a top 100 is straightforward but it would mean a lot more contests becoming ranking events and that would stretch resources beyond breaking point!

    I've seen and read some of the flak that 4br picks up on account of their extended table. Not sure if I want to invite that!
  14. Statto

    Statto Member

    The 1 May ranking is now published on here.

    Not a huge amount of movement since last month as the majority of bands were inactive during April.

    More interesting perhaps is the comparison between the most popular own choice pieces played at the European - see here - and the most popular pieces per tMP poll in 2006. There is no better opportunity to play a 'crowd pleaser' than in the own choice section of the European so I guess it's no surprise that there's a fair bit of correlation.

    The most popular Euro own choice composer by a distance is Philip Sparke and he will clock up another three performances later today. A Sparke retrospective is available here. Can't wait to hear his new work, played by ...;)