Brass clinicians - is the term appropriate?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by madsaz, Oct 23, 2005.

  1. madsaz

    madsaz Member

    I know this is off thred and therefore you are wlcome to edit me out of existance, but I would be interested to ask Alex Kerwin what kind of clinician she is?

    Your biography doesn't mention formal training in medicine.

    from the Oxford dictionary:
  2. Kerwintootle

    Kerwintootle Member

    You're gonna have a long job admonishing every brass player who uses that term.
  3. madsaz

    madsaz Member

    Well I'd be happy to start. We clinicans get very frustrated by the erosion of title. Having been training 11 years, with another 3 to go before I am a consulatant physician, its the kind of thing I take fairly seriously.

    I am amazed to find it in use actually as I've never heard a Brass Player do it before & its a fairly well defined word. I wonder if you'd explain what is meant by it in a Brass Playing context as I'm genuinely confused?
    I would regard people calling themselves clinicians who do not practice clinical medicine or pcychiatry as misusing the title.
  4. madsaz

    madsaz Member

    well its not really off topic if a nominated website i.e. nominated as being excellent and something to look up to, contains misleading claims. I think its an extremely serious question I am asking about a nominated website.If I post on our website that we are Championship section when we're not is that ok?
  5. Kerwintootle

    Kerwintootle Member

    Oh dear, oh dear! Sorry that this thread has gone off topic. but I must defend my honour (lol).

    Maybe you want to take this up with Brett Baker, Mark Wilkinson and anyone else that uses the term clinician. I endorse and promote for Besson, I teach full time for a living, I give masterclasses and group teaching sessions throughout NZ, OZ and Europe for example at the National Youth Band of New Zealand and the National Secondary Schools Band of NZ. If you look at the Merriam-Webster dictionary it states under the term clinician, 2 : a person who conducts a clinic So then you can look up clinic and you get this definition
    2 : a group meeting devoted to the analysis and solution of concrete problems or to the acquiring of specific skills or knowledge <writing clinics> <golf clinics>

    OMG you'd better start writing to all those writing, golf clinics. Now hang on, don't MP's have clinics? Well get your Basildon Bond writing paper out and start challenging them too.

    By the way, if you're going to criticise someone, do it properly. Hint: check your spelling. Erm thred? What's that? Wlcome? I couldn't find those words in the dictionary.

    Sorry Mods.
  6. kiwisop

    kiwisop Account Suspended

    While we are off topic just thought i would create a band using players who are regarded as clinicans..Quite a good line up i think you will agree. The players listed are in no particular order !!!!!


    Nick Childs

    Alan Wytcherley


    Roger Webster
    Alan Morrison
    Russel Gray
    Alexandra Kerwin
    Mark Wilkinson
    James Shepperd
    Dave King
    Herbert L Clarke


    Sheona White
    Leslie Howie
    Sandy Smith


    Steven Mead
    Jonothan Webster


    David Childs
    Bob Childs
    Glyn Williams


    James Gourlay
    Steve Sykes
    Pat Sheriden

    Brett Baker
    Nick Hudson
    Andrew Berryman

    I could easily have found many more players in this band. These were just the ones that came up on my browser. It seems that clinician is a recognised term widely used in the brass band movement and music in general.
  7. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    We've split these posts from the Website Nominations thread, and a reasoned continuation of the discussion can continue here.

    It seems to me that this is just one of the many instances in language where specialist terms from one field have been "adopted" and used in another sphere. Whilst the term "clinician" may, according to a dictionary definition, be specific to the medical profession, a wider web search reveals that its use in music is wide-spread, covering areas from early music through to jazz and rock, and certainly not exclusive to the world of brass instruments and brass bands.
  8. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    What about all the PC clinicians in PC World....

    Ok bad example.
  9. Kerwintootle

    Kerwintootle Member

    Ha, ha!
  10. tedmundo

    tedmundo Member

    Sympathize with MADSAZ, but usage has taken the word beyond the field of medecine, just as politicians and social workers conduct "surgeries". Using her source, a search on clinic yields...

    noun 1 a place where specialized medical treatment or advice is given. 2 a gathering at a hospital bedside for the teaching of medicine or surgery. 3 [size=-1]chiefly N. Amer.[/size] a conference or short course on a particular subject.
    [size=-1]— ORIGIN[/size] from Greek klinike tekhne ‘bedside art’, from kline ‘bed’.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2005
  11. Daisy Duck

    Daisy Duck Member

    I don't think anyone would seriously think that a brass clinician was a medical doctor, would they?

    It just seems to be a rather poncy term for someone who gets paid a lot of money to advertise a certain brand of instrument, which is great for that person but not so great when people get pushed into playing a certain brand just because some semi-famous person says they should.
  12. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Well-Known Member

    Most of the best clinicians I have seen and worked with may be an Artist for a specific brand, but they won't force that brand onto anyone else. If anyone does this, they are proving more about themselves than any amount of playing and teaching can do.
    And if anybody plays an instrument purely because some great/well-known player does, well, that says far too much about them:rolleyes:

    The term clinician is a very common one in the world of music. The truly great clinicians are those that can walk into a masterclass situation and diagnose what each participants' problems are. This is a very difficult skill to acquire and does take years f training. I am not putting it on the same level as medical clinicians, but I don't feel that they should be abused for using the term.
    If words were only used in their original context, the world would be a much less interesting place. Language develops and evolves, words get used for different meanings. This is just one of those cases.
  13. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    In fairness, I've attended a number of presentations (masterclasses, clinics, call them what you will) given by famous (or semi-famous) people, and I haven't come away from any of them feeling as though I've been subjected to any kind of selling 'pitch'. My experience of such events is that these players are more concerned with aspects of playing technique than they are in selling a brand. When questioned, they will, understandably, give their reasons for playing/endorsing the particular brand on which they choose to play, but they would be too professional not to emphasise that choice of instrument is very much an individual preference.
  14. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    the quote doesn't state that the doctor has to be of medicine though. So for example DR N. Childs can claim to be a clinician if he treats the symptoms of not being able to play high from that example.

    Anyway, I've never really heard doctors calling themselves clinicians over in this country much. Far more common are the terms (S/PR)HO, registrar... which provide far more information about the medical grade.
  15. starperformer

    starperformer Member

    Unfortunately for that argument, you are confusing doctor and Doctor - look them up.

    There is no shortage of people using exaggerated/wrong titles to big themselves up, and it certainly doesn't stop with so-called "brass clinicians". Check out the 4barsrest "professional cards" page for numerous amusing examples of fauxs pas such as "Dr. xxxx PhD", more letters than name, etc.
  16. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    Are you suggesting ther's something wrong with having more letters after your name than in it?? Some of us have earned it !


    (Ron Rees Davies, BVSc., CertZooMed., MRCVS..)
  17. Keppler

    Keppler Moderator Staff Member

    Indeed we have!

    Keppler, BOC
  18. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Some people are unlucky, and have short names anyway ...

    Sorry ... :oops:
  19. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    am I being stupid if I don't get this?
  20. starperformer

    starperformer Member

    Not at all, but letters used in an irrelevant context (like, for example, including a CertZooMed on a musician's card) say more about someone than any qualification could, especially when there are a lot of them. The qualifications that people do earn allow them to reap rewards within their chosen field; use outside that smacks of ludicrous self-importance.

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