Bourgeois 2nd BB Concerto

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by davetubaking, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. davetubaking

    davetubaking Member

    I've just completed a virtual performance of the 2nd movement of Derek Bourgeois 2nd Brass Band Concerto Created using the Vienna Symphonic Library. Runs for five minutes.
    Its pretty aggresive writing but most exciting.

    The first movement can still be heard here.

    More information about how it is cerated can be found here if your interested.

    So what do you think of virtual performances and this one in particular. Interested to hear any constructive views.
  2. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    I haven't heard this piece in years, thankyou. No taking anything away from your computerised version, but do you know if it's every been recorded by humans? I remember as a young lad listening to this piece played by Black Dyke/Grimey at the Proms in about 1981/82 and I don't think I've heard it since! Cracking piece, sadly neglected in favour of the 1st Concerto and Concerto Grosso, which (in my opinion) are not quite as good.
  3. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    The third movement was included on the 1975 National Festival Gala concert LP, but to the best of my knowledge the whole thing has never been the subject of a commercial recording. Inexplicable really. I have a not very good quality recording of that Dyke/Grimey performance on a cassette tape (you remember them!) - quiet bits are rather drowned out by Radio 3 hiss.

    Absolutely. Perhaps Mr B will be the focus of some future RNCM Festival and we might get to hear it again then.
  4. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    Fascinating. I've always wondered what this piece would sound like played on a piano accordion!

    Sorry, not very constructive. As a means of hearing works which would otherwise not get heard I think it's a brilliant idea. I imagine it takes some time to do. I look forward to your Salford Toccata. How about Paul Steinitz's Tableaux of Heraldic Animals next?
  5. davetubaking

    davetubaking Member

    There is no commercial recording otherwise I wouldn't do this.

    A little better than a piano accordian I think - but falling considerably short of a good live performance. But perhaps better than a bad live performance?

    You certainly get all the right notes in the right place.

    It probably takes about 4-5 hours per minute to create although I haven't timed myself. A bit like doing a difficult jigsaw.

    I've stuck to the marked tempos and the first movement runs 2 minutes shorter than the proms performance and the second mobement 1 minute+ shorter.

    I haven't been able to get hold of the score of the Salford Toccata yet but I've still got the 3rd movement of the Bourgeoise to do. I've been in contact with Derek who is very supportive and encouraging. He is also very disappointed no one has recorded it yet.

    I haven't heard of the Steinitz piece. Any details?
  6. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    All I need is a Band ;)
  7. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I think you mean Richard Steinitz, formerly composition lecturer at Huddersfield. I had a place on the masters course to study composition with him but I ran out of money :(

    Paul Steinitz was a quaker who founded the London Bach Society but hasn't contributed to the contemporary band repertoire afaik ;)

    But the point remains valid - I'd love to hear a recording (or even a live performance maybe) of Tableaux.
  8. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Maybe I should acquire a 'Band in Residence', get a list together and record all the stuff people have 'always wanted' and offer them for download only....
  9. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    [puts hand up] I'll volunteer for 3rd cornet [/puts hand down] ;)

    And I'd pre-order, if neccesary. So all you need is another 28 players and another 500 or so orders.....:biggrin:

    Easy-peasy for a man of your calibre, Mr J :tup
  10. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    The Prom performance took place on 9 September 1981. I've just dug out my off-air cassette recording and find it's still in decent condition. Black Dyke and Grimethorpe were conducted by Elgar Howarth.

    If there were sufficient market potential, maybe the BBC would be willing to release the master recording to another commercial company (e.g., Doyen). It's a commanding performance free of intrusive blemishes (admittedly I haven't seen the score) and you have the thrill of a remarkable live performance in the spacious RAH acoustic.
  11. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    And therein lies the crux.....

    Manufacture of physical product isn't an issue - it's only about £600 for 500 units with 8pp booklets and only £750 for 1000 of the same spec (+ licence).

    When you've got to pay either to make the recording or to inlicence it, that's where you could be potentially throwing big bucks at things for low or zero returns - or it could lose you money if there's no market.

    To the OP - nice job :D
  12. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    That seems to ring a memory bell! Not quite for a resident band, but a project to record tMpers' favourite test pieces ... :rolleyes:
  13. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Touche ;)
  14. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    But to get back on topic about the concerto, the representation is good enough to know what is going on. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if new commissions are generated using notation/sequencer software to help MDs get a feel for performance (not that MDs would openly admit that though).
  15. Keith Stanley James Lever

    Keith Stanley James Lever Supporting Member

    Proms 1981.....................

  16. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    I'll be on the customer list for any recordings of that nature!
  17. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    I believe it was written for Grimethorpe (presumably at Elgar Howarth's behest), other than that I don't know. Sorry.

    It may well be Richard, not Paul. I never used to write down first names when I was making my radio recordings!
  18. davetubaking

    davetubaking Member

    Maybe I'm missing a trick here. The current performances are only rough cuts as far as the mixing and post production goes. If I can significantly improve the sound of the performance - couple it with my own Symphony (total about 70 minutes) I wonder whether I could sell 500 to a 1000 units at say £4.99 a throw.

    Hmmmm! - sits back and breaks out a fat cigar.

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