Borrowing players

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Okiedokie of Oz, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    Messages:
    2,091
    Location:
    Rockhampton, Qld, AUSTRALIA
    In Australia, we call this process, of using another band's players in an emergency, permitting. there are many rules we have to follow, such as

    ORGANISATION WITH ONE COMPETING BAND
    AT SAME STATE CONTEST MAY HAVE:
    1 x OVERSEAS PERMIT
    1 x OVERSEAS PERMIT for No.1 plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No. 1
    or
    2 x INTERSTATE PERMITS

    2 x INTERSTATE PERMITS for No.1 plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No.1
    or
    I x INTERSTATE & I x QLD. BASED PERMIT

    1 x INTERSTATE plus 1 x QLD PLAYER plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No.1
    or
    or
    3 x QLD. BASED PERMITS

    3 x QLD PERMITS plus 3 x JUNIORS from No. 2 to No. 1

    and so forth.

    There was, for those of you who don't follow Australian Brass Banding, a massive debacle in Victoria (southern state, where Melbourne is) over the use of a permit by a winning B grade (section 2??) band, which ahs taken lawyers and 6 months to resolve.

    The question is now being asked in the QBA forum by a member of the MAB if we need to adjust our permit rules to make sure we can't get into strife like this.

    Can someone please explain to me how you guys work this sort of thing out, what yout rules are, and perhaps make suggestions from your years of experience??
     
  2. Pythagoras

    Pythagoras Active Member

    Messages:
    1,777
    Location:
    Sheffield
    For the areas and nationals you can't borrow. For other contests the rules vary, but are often something like this:

    You can borrow 4 players from your own section or lower, except that in the 4th section 2 of these can be from third section.
     
  3. Australian Euphonium

    Australian Euphonium New Member

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Yah touchy subject in Australia isn't it!!...I'd rather not go there. I think its best just to try and get your own band to a contest with as little help as possible. Of course that can't always happen and it's a shame when disputes arise out of the permitting proccess...6 months and lawyers...god whats the point of being in a brass band if your're spending all your time fighting over who wins one silly contest.
     
  4. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    Messages:
    3,203
    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    does anyone know the rules for borrowing at pontins??
    does it have to be from same or lower? or same or 1 section above? or any section?
     
  5. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    Messages:
    2,091
    Location:
    Rockhampton, Qld, AUSTRALIA
    My band and I would have loved to do this contest on our own. Unfortunately, we lost a lot of players last minute. A bass trombonist you might be able to get away with, but the lead percussionist?????
     
  6. sparkling_quavers

    sparkling_quavers Active Member

    Messages:
    4,188
    Location:
    Manchester
    same or lower section I believe...although think the 2 from 3rd applies to 4th section
     
  7. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    Messages:
    3,203
    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    aww bugger :) oh well toby :p
    any champ band want a cornet and horn player for pontins?? :)
     
  8. Steve Nicoll

    Steve Nicoll Member

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    The rules definitely vary from area to area as I've guested for 4th section bands as a Championship Section player in the past.
     
  9. Borfeo

    Borfeo Member

    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    Inverness
    Yeah, your quite right there Stevie.

    Up in Scotland the rule is that you can borrow up to four players, with max of two coming from higher section bands.
     
  10. Moy

    Moy Active Member

    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Muirton of Barras
    But not for Area or Nationals.
     
  11. Borfeo

    Borfeo Member

    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    Inverness
    Indeed.... :oops:
     
  12. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    Messages:
    6,973
    Location:
    Wem, Shropshire UK
    Pontins Brass Band Championships - Rules

    Day transfers will be allowed on completion of an 'Application for Temporary Day Transfer of Player(s)'

    A band may borrow no more that 4 players for any one contest

    A player on temporary day transfer for a contest may play for:
    • The band which has applied for the temporary transfer,
      The band with which he/she is normally registered, if that band is competing
      Championship, First, Second and Third Sections.
    Borrowed players in the above sections shall be registered players from bands registered either the same grade or grades lower than the borrowing band.
    Fourth Section: Borrowed players in the 4th section shall be registered players from bands in the same section or of the four permitted borrowed players, up to two may be from the third section.

    Good job they don't make these rules too complicated eh!

    :?
     
  13. RichardCookson

    RichardCookson Member

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Preston, UK
    I think a lot of the 'heat' has been taken out of this subject in the UK by the decision a few years ago that professional musicians could now be used in contests, and that a lengthy period of registration was no longer required before a contest.

    UK bands who are desperate to enter a competition but don't have a full complement often register a professional, music student, or some other player who doesn't normally play in a brass band for the contest. This can be done at quite short notice provided they are not already registered with another band and is certainly used a lot in the championship section to temporarily fill gaps.

    Also, as was recently pointed out elswhere in this forum, conductors do not have to be registered with a particular band in the UK and are free to register and play with other bands, allowing them to register to help out other bands in an emergency.
     
  14. louise0502

    louise0502 Member

    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    Portsmouth/Newcastle
    We borrowed a player last year at the areas cos two of our players had a bad car crash on the way down. We were only allowed one though.

    Must have been an exception
     
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