Borrowing Music

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by HornBlast, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. HornBlast

    HornBlast New Member

    My band recently had their AGM and I took the MD and committee to task for spending so little on new music. I estimate that 60-70% of "new" pieces our band gets are photocopies. Sadly when I help out other bands this also appears to be the case.

    Has any band actually banned the use of the photcopier? I appreciate that music can be expensive but if we carry on doing this then surely publishers will just put the prices up even further?

    I accept that if you get asked to do one piece that you're never going to play again, then a photocopy probably is the best way forward...providing that you purchase all of your other music.

    What's your bands' percentage of photocopies?
    Any policies in your band on it?

    Yours...(preparing to duck!)
  2. HornBlast

    HornBlast New Member

    Oops, forgot to it legal to borrow pieces?
  3. P_S_Price

    P_S_Price Member

    We Buy all of our music. The SP&S regularly issues it during the year and we, like most SA bands purchase it by subscription.

    However as it is the SA essentially buying it from the SA, the money stays within the organisation (apart from costs of course).

    The only time we use Photocopies is for those of us with dodgy eyesight that need certain pieces enlarging for practice. I suspect that although this is not legal, I cant see the SA suing one of its own corps over this.
  4. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    just a warning: photocopying is illegal, so be carefull what you say on a "public" forum. It might not be so wise to tell that your band has a "policy" for photocopying pieces of music...
  5. derrenba

    derrenba New Member

    Actually, it's not.

    Photocopying--even photocopying of works covered by currently enforceable copyrights--that falls under the terms of fair dealing is entirely legal.
  6. P_S_Price

    P_S_Price Member

    Its not a Policy - We buy all our copies. Its just that the very occasional piece is so small or tightly packed that some of us Oldies struggle to read them. So for practice those individual piece part(s) are enlarged. As I say if the SA sued the Corps, It is effectively suing itself!
  7. Pyman71

    Pyman71 Member

    Hi Pete,
    I may be wrong but I think there is a loop-hole in the SA copyright law where an SA band can photocopy music they have purchased for the sole intention of use within said band. As I say I may be wrong but that is what I heard.
  8. Pyman71

    Pyman71 Member

    Sorry, loop-hole may be the wrong word.
  9. Active Member

    It's not a loophole and applies ONLY to the Scripture-based Songs journals where only one of each part is included in each set. The ensemble are at liberty to print however many copies of each part they require for their particular ensemble.
  10. P_S_Price

    P_S_Price Member

    @WoB (SP&S in disguise) - So how would the SA go about suing one of its own bands then?

    Purely because some oldie like me cant clearly see the close packed copy during practice?

    That would make a great media headline wouldnt it?
  11. Pyman71

    Pyman71 Member

    I have just researched this problem and as I understand if your corps has a photocopy licence then you can photocopy certain music for sole use within the corps, but I'm not certain about what music. I sugest you have a word with your CO who might be able to shed some light on it.
  12. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Aarrrrrgh!! Yes, but this NEVER includes whole band sets, only applies to educational establishments (so far as I remember) and certainly only to works of publishers who have signed up to the deal. It rarely covers performance music and should be largely ignored on this forum.

    And it's NOT ok to copy one set if you buy the rest!!!

    I repeat - AAAAAAARRRRGH!!
  13. P_S_Price

    P_S_Price Member

    But we are not talking about whole band sets - Talking about one part on one piece (SA music usually has 4 pieces per Issue). Where the individual player has difficulty seeing the copy.
  14. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Yours wasn't the post I was replying to ....

    Your case still needs publishers' permission - though that would always be granted, I guess.
  15. anyone have a clue what the law says if you're missing one part, and the band down the road let's you copy that part from their library then is that wrong? after all at some point in the past you owned the full set and it's just gone missing.
  16. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    Yes that is wrong. You should approach the publisher who will (usually) quite gladly supply a replacement part. Some don't even charge for it ;)
  17. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    The law says it's wrong. The MPA's Code of Fair Practice says it is allowed (by those publishers who take part) if you purchase a part after the event.
  18. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Active Member

    Some publishers are very good about this and will send out a part for free (or at least just to cover postage).
    And then there are the others who will charge £5 for a single part (on an A3 sheet of paper). My guess would be that it is these publishers who are almost encouraging people to photocopy missing parts - £5 for a single part is ridiculous, when you can see the photocopying charges for yourself. I completely understand the cost of music and that if you don't pay a reasonable fee for music then composers won't be able to afford to write any more, but when you have already purchased a full set to then be charged such a high price for a single part does seem to be the publishers trying to squeeze more money out of a band - most of whom are already suffering financially.
    One missing part can render a piece of music useless, so publishers know that they can get away with charging such fees for single parts.

    Maybe if they charged what is considered a reasonable fee (for what is basically just printing off a part from their files) then there would be less illegal photocopying?
  19. HornBlast

    HornBlast New Member

    I think that Philip Sparke's reaction is fully understandable and although not a composer myself I do fully appreciate that this is how composers make a living. i.e. selling their music.
    I don't think that any composer is going to gripe over the odd piece being borrowed/loaned now and then to fulfil a special request for the odd concert. What I object to is the fact that one band that I play with has pieces with the names of 3 or even 4 bands stamped on it...but no one seems to do anything about it, or even care. How many pieces in your bands' current pad are photocopies? Look at your bands' accounts. How much do they spend on new music? Does this tally with how much music you are getting in the pads?

    My New Year resolution: refusal to play off photocopies!!!
  20. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    OK - forgetting the legalities of photo-copying and everything - I am just curious as to how you would do this!? I don't know you, or what instrument you play or the bands you play for - but it matters not. If you are playing (depping!) for a band and a piece of music is put in front of you at a concert/park job (whatever!) and it is clearly a photo-copy would you just sit there, arms crossed and flatly refuse to play!!

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