Borrowed Players for Spring Festival

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Sandy Smith, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. Sandy Smith

    Sandy Smith Member

    Please correct me if I am wrong but am I right in thinking that each band is allowed to contest with 4 players whose registrations are held by other bands, UK or foreign, at the Grand Shield ?
    Is this also the case for the Senior Cup and Trophy ?

    What are the general thoughts on this ?
    Why has it come about ?
    If a band chooses to use 4 borrowed players is it a true reflection on the standard of that band ?
    Is this generally considered a factor that is here to stay - has the horse already bolted on this one ?
    Is the borrowing of players on any scale just papering over the cracks re. the health of the movement ?
  2. ersop

    ersop New Member

    Sandy, the rules are available here ( I don't see anything that mentions 4 players anywhere, registration is covered in rule 9 and everyone playing in the Spring Festival (and the Open) will be on their own registration database.
  3. Pauli Walnuts

    Pauli Walnuts Moderator Staff Member

    Just looking at the large numbers of transfers just before major contests suggests people are moving about anyway. I went to see Grimethorpe in Concert a while back - they had 4 or 5 deps but do you think any single member of the audience cared about that? In the same way I didn't check the player list for the LPO last time I saw them.

    Outside of the top section, many people play with multiple bands for concerts - personally, I don't see why someone shouldn't play with more than one band - it's happening outside of the contesting world so why not within?

    Just my opinion of course.
  4. Sandy Smith

    Sandy Smith Member

    Thanks Les.
    I did read the rules before I posted this and agree about not finding any info on the 4 players thing.
    The whole thing was brought up in a conversation this morning with a fellow bander after reading the 4BR preview on the Grand Shield here ( ) - see paragraph headed "Aquavit"

    Will happily stand corrected on this - just wondered if anyone could shed some light on what is or isn't allowed. There does seem to be some discrepancy between the printed rules and the report on 4BR.
  5. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    The rules presumably take priority over anything reported by 4barsrest?

    However can anyone explain the logic of this rule?

    "9a. All competing players must be registered with your band in the British Open Online Registry.
    9b. Players having competed in the British Open with band (a) and subsequently competed with band (b) at the following Spring festival will be prohibited from competing with band (a) at the following British Open"

    As 9a isn't linked to any of the other acknowledged registries "your band" is basically whoever you say "your band" is.

    The only restriction is that any player having previously competed at the British Open can't subsequently return to that band in this year's British Open however there is nothing stopping any such player competing from all the other bands in the same years contest.

    So exactly what is trying to be achieved by this rule?

    I await Alex putting me straight
  6. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Who, me? :p

    The key thing here is that the British Open now operates its own registry. Its totally different from and independent of the 'National' registry, and in the context of your question Fran, it is THE acknowledged registry.
    In theory, a band could compete at the Spring Festival/British Open with a completely different set of players from every other contest they do.

    Last year all the bands simply had to submit a list of the players who would be on stage with them at the contest; those lists were then used as the starting point for the Brit. Open to create their own registry, which among other things allows easy cross-checking of movement between bands.
    The rule ref. switching between bands from contest to contest is in the same spirit as the National registry rule that stops a player re-registering with a previous band within 6 months.

    No, this rule applied when the Brit. Open used the National Registry but it doesn't exist any more.

    Just about every contest except the Areas/Nationals allows a number of borrowed players now - so yes, the horse has bolted!
    From a local association perspective I believe that rule is in place in recognition of the fact that not every band is always full and not every player can make every gig because of work/family etc, and being able to borrow or 'day transfer' players helps more bands get onto the contest stage.
    Some people argue for allowing more borrowing, or even scrapping registrations altogether, but as many (or in my experience, more) others call for stricter rules and preventing borrowing to ensure that the band sitting on a contest stage is the same band at rehearsals week in week out.... its almost impossible to please everyone!

    Personally I think allowing up to 4 borrows is a good compromise - it supports the bands that need a bit of help with their numbers, but doesn't allow a band to bring in so many players that it would make a massive difference to the overall quality and standard.
  7. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    My understanding is that the rule effectively stops bands in the Spring Festival from borrowing players who played at the previous year's British Open. The band I'm playing with has a couple of players who will be playing for other bands at the British Open in September, but what they couldn't do was fill gaps with players from last September's Open.
  8. GordonH

    GordonH Active Member

    I think the issue of borrowed players is a bit of a red herring when so many players are effectively "freelance", signing for a band for one contest. These are not technically borrowed players, but you effectively have "scratch" or "pick up" bands. Its as common in the lower sections as the higher ones due to the lack of players in some areas.
  9. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    I don't think that's quite right.
    Technically there is no "borrowing" for this contest any more - each band simply states the players they will be using with the Open's own registry. For most bands this will be more or less the same set of players as for other contests, but clearly there is scope to use players who do other contests with different bands as for the purposes of these contests the 'National' BBP Registry is irrelevant.

    Players who did last year's Open can do this Spring Festival with a different band.... what the rule would stop them doing is returning to the previous band again for this year's Open.
  10. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Yep you :), same spirit but extended to a year! But probably intended to prevent borrowing at Blackpool the following year.