Black Dyke CD - SA Marches

Discussion in ' User Reviews' started by brasswithclass, Sep 19, 2009.

  1. I just played my new copy in the car coming home from a concert with them in the Sydney Opera House.

    I just wondered if anyone wants to offer their opionion on the playing?
  2. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    I think generally it is very good, although I did find it a little "clinical" at times. There also seemed to be a couple of moments which suggested the playing was affected by tiredness, as if the tracks had been laid down at the end of a long session.
  3. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    I haven't heard this yet so am intrigued by your question. Do you have reservations yourself or are you asking for a different reason?
  4. Reservations .......... sadly
  5. Gorgie boy

    Gorgie boy Member

    I like it. Good to hear "In the Firing Line" which was my favourite march as a child.

    One slight moan, the bar before the bass solo starts in "The Red Shield" (by the way is there a better march in the world??) the cornet/trombone/horns? chord appears to have been changed from a concert Ab major chord to a concert Db major chord. This seems so very wrong and means that there isn't a "lead in" to the bass solo, or at least a bit of a cumbersome one. Is this an error, or was it decided to change that chord? If the chord was changed why ever was it changed? Pedantic I know but it rankles with me a bit.
  6. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Not heard it and don't know the march.....but does the material leading up to the bass solo occur anywhere else (like in a repeated section?) where there's the 'wrong' chord? Could be an editing error that's slipped through where a bit has been nicked from elsewhere....
  7. Gorgie boy

    Gorgie boy Member

    No Keith,

    Don't think it can have been borrowed from anywhere else, as the passage doesn't occur anywhere else in the march. The chord doesn't necessarily "seem" wrong, it's just that it "is" wrong and it strikes me that everyone has had their note changed (think it's cornets, horns, trombones and baris). I often wonder why these things happen.
  8. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member


    Perhaps it's an 'edition' ;)
  9. Red Elvis

    Red Elvis Active Member

    Got hold of the CD yesterday and had a listen. Yes, there is certainly something a bit different about that chord in "The Red Shield" but I'm not certain that its been changed as such but rather the "weighting" of the chord just different to normal - on my listening the lower end of the band is not as "visible" as normal , thus changing the sound of the chord ? ( I fear my theory knowledge is not what it could be so apologies for lack of technical terms ! ).

    Also interested in Dr Nic's notes , wherein he states that he has stuck to the indicated tempo markings for the marches. In my experience SA bandmasters tend to take a much more relaxed approach to stated tempi ( hence why different recordings of the same pieces by SA bands always had , in my experience much more variation than you'd perhaps find in recordings of a test piece or similar by secular bands ).Hence "Soldiers of Christ" is taken at a faster pace than I've heard in a while and likewise "Torchbearers" a little slower.

    Interestingly ( or maybe not and I should just try and get out more !! ) both this recording of "Torchbearers" and Cory's rendition of it at Bert's Barn yesterday for me are quite legato-like in approach compared to how I've played it in years gone by , particularly in the opening fanfare. Mkes for an interesting approach.

    Will be interested to see whats lined up for Vol 2.
  10. Gorgie boy

    Gorgie boy Member

    Listened again yesterday in the car - the chord is definitely changed! Strange.

    As for the tempi, I think in the SA we get used to hearing marches played ata certain speed, for example, Mighty to Save is normally played at quite a lick. Dyke's performance is slower, and obviously true to the metronome markings, but in my opinion the march benefits from a bit of pace.

    volume 2 will hopefully be Festival Marches. Would love to hear them play Dean Goffin's Crusaders amongst others. Maybe Chalk Farm No2 as well, and Bill Himes' Motivation. That would keep me happy!
  11. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    There is certainly plenty to choose from, and I'd certainly endorse "Chalk Farm No 2" - very much overlooked. I'd also like to see some more recent overseas marches such as Stephen Bulla's "Lowell Centenary" - be great to hear Dyke's trombones in that one!
  12. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    As luck would have it, this passage can be heard on World of Brass Tunes preview. Paul is quite right about the wrong chord being played on beat 1 of the bar before section C. It should be concert Ab, not Db.

    It isn't apparent how this could have been misread but erroneous editing perhaps: the Db chord immediately preceding the wrong one could have been repeated but the upper cornet notes would have been different (concert F instead of Ab). But with digital editing, who knows?
  13. Gorgie boy

    Gorgie boy Member

    Good to have my thoughts endorsed by such a distinguished ear!!
  14. Emblem of the Army ..... a couple of bars towards the end of the bass solo..... wrong nots in the bass line.

    Soldiers of Christ .... far too fast. Sounding very circus music (Entry of the Gladiators comes to mind) not the grand old stately march I know and grew up with.

    In the Firing Line ..... the Enfield recording on Kaleidescope wins by at least 10 points. Now having critisised them I am a Black Dyke fan proven with recordings from 78's Vinyl and CD and I have most of them

    I am enjoying the other new CD - Walking with Heroes. The composer is a talent I think! I like the Haunted house one the most.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  15. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

  16. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Only a couple of newer offerings as well - maybe they're going for the long haul ;)
  17. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Some interesting choices; I know most of them, but there are a few unknowns for me ...

    "The Liberator" - Cracking march, but recently recorded by Grimethorpe on their "History of .. " series; not really sure why bother duplicating it ... ?

    "Minneapolis IV" - Excellent choice

    "Dalarö" - bit "left field", but interesting ...

    "The Flag of Freedom" - don't know this at all - any info?

    "To Regions Fair" - classic; superb example of simplicity winning out over complexity, IMHO

    "Victors Acclaimed" - Again, classic choice, but why duplicate the Grimethorpe recording?

    "Exeter Temple" - Don't really know it.

    "Goldcrest" - bit too reminiscent of "happy-clappy" religion for me, but good audience fodder, I suppose ...

    "Motondo" - Excellent choice, but will have to be very well played to better the ISB 1960's recording, IMO ...

    "Army of God" - Not sure; think I know this, but not certain. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's a bit different ...

    "Spirit of Joy" - Classic

    "The Roll Call" - Very dated; OK, but not "classic" in my view; others will differ ...

    "Indomitable" - No idea; any info?

    "The Redcliffe March" - Classic; difficult to make the sop trills work in the final section, though ...

    "Heroes of the Combat" - my Dad will be so pleased about this one; I can remember him playing me the old 78rpm recording of this when I was but a boy ...

    "Cairo Red Shield" - don't know it very well, but a "classic", I'm sure ...

    "Spirit of Praise" - Don't think I know this one, although it might be one I recognise when I hear it ...

    "The Wellingtonian" - another classic from my younger days listening to my Dad's 78's (although I really hope they do the DC ... ! )

    All over, good choices, I think; I hope they've taken a bit more care over the recordings than on Vol. I though. Not sure if it was just me, but I couldn't help feeling with the first set that, although one couldn't really consider the playing anything other than "very good", I was kind of hoping for "outstanding", and I was a bit disappointed, and thought it should have been somehow "better".

    Other people have already mentioned the errors in "Red Shield", and elsewhere, so I'm kind of hoping that Vol. II will have been prepared with a little more care ...

    As for Vol. III, well ...

    my playlist would have to include:

    Southern Cross
    Universal Message
    High Council
    Steadily Onward
    Pressing Onward
    etc, etc,

    Having said that, there are still plenty of "ordinary" marches that could easily be considered "world-class" to work through yet ...
  18. kiwiinoz

    kiwiinoz Member

    I must say the CD was pretty good although i agree with brasswithclass that Enfield do a much better job with In the Firing Line. Was disappointed or was I imagining a wrong high b flat from cornets leading up to the repeat line in letter B????
    All in all not a bad CD but too clinical for my tastes. Torchbearers too slow. WOuld like to have heard Wellingtonian in there and why did the Sop not play the high part in Emblem of the Free, he went to the high B flat but stopped there. He did plenty of not written octave high ends but not this part. Loved the concert they did here though, fantastic
  19. kiwiinoz

    kiwiinoz Member

    Sorry, I meant Red Shield for the wrong high b flat by cornets not the Firing Line. My bad!:oops:
  20. Gorgie boy

    Gorgie boy Member

    You might be thinking of the March "Onward to Conquer" by Albert Jakeway, General Series 1113, which is pretty similar in that it uses the same theme "Salvation Army, Army of God" but doesn't have the chorus as a bass solo.

    I think Volume 2 is much better than volume 1. I like the way that the bass solos are played at pitch first time through, then pedalled second time. Good effect. Roll on volume 3.

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