Bb/F Trombone Triggers

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by brewerdan, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. brewerdan

    brewerdan New Member

    Hi I'm new at this, but, I was wondering if a fellow Trombonist could aide me in a decision, I am currently looking to purchase a new proffesional trombone, the Rath R3 is my preffered at the moment, however I am unsure whether I should buy a trombone with a Bb/F trigger, in a proffesional orchestra do I need one? I am currently 16 but want a tronbone that would take my to my potential, so, I put the question to you all, Trigger or No Trigger?
    Dan
     
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  3. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Hi there, and welcome to tMP! I'm sure that many of our resident trom. players will advise you on the most suitable trombone. Here is a link to one of the major music shops (in New York) called Giardinelli and it's guide to choosing a trombone ... (to get the ball rolling)

    http://www.giardinelli.com/document?doc_id=97921&g=home&s=guides
     
  4. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Most professional trombonists that I know (and I know quite a few) have multiple instruments for different playing situations. It used to be that professional tenor trombone players would never us an instrument with a trigger (and some still won't), but advances in the valve technology have helped make triggers more acceptable in the professional world.

    Do you have a good trombone teacher? If so, then you might want to get some advice from the teacher on what to buy. If not, you might consider spending your money on really good instruction and buying a slightly lesser instrument.

    Whatever trombone you decide to buy, make sure that you actually play the instrument you're going to purchase before you make any commitment of money. Even the best makes can have problems on individual instruments.
     
  5. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    If you are wanting to cut some sway in the professional world, there is only one instrument for you: the Conn 88H. Virtually every principal/2nd trombone player in this country uses one and those who don't, usually have their Edwards/Rath configured in such a way as to sound like one!

    Before you could even think about getting an orchestral job, you will hopefully be freelancing for a few years. Most 'gig' orchestras will only work on one or possibly two rehearsals, so it's best for a freelancer to be able to 'slot' in to an established section as quickly as possible. Playing an instrument that has the same sound as everybody else makes it easy.

    It would be fair to say that Conns are not the easiest instruments to live with day to day, but the facts speak for themselves: Of all the orchestras I have worked with in the 5-6 years I've been freelancing, only perhaps four or five players might play on something other than a Conn 88H and the usual alternative is a Bach 42B.

    If it's a good all-rounder you are after, I would definately go for a Bb/F as opposed to a 'straight' Bb, simply for versatility - orchestras are not going to book you on 1st trombone all the time, and some 2nd parts often go below the range of a Bb trombone (look at Janacek's output). If you are at all worried about turbulence caused by the air column going through the valve section, Conn do an 88HCL version which has a free-flow valve, and it's still cheaper than an Edwards Blunderbuss!

    I hope this has been useful to you. Best of luck in your career.
     
  6. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    By the way - don't touch a Rath R3 with a bargepole! It has a .525" bore and is considered a 'medium bore' trombone. If you have to have a Rath, go for the R4 as it is a standard 'orchestral' large bore (.547").
     
  7. Despot

    Despot Member

    Trigger - Yes! :) If you're only going to have one trombone, and one is all you really need right now, it should have a trigger.

    Instrument: Conn 88H, and it's variants, are basically the standard pro orchestral trombone worldwide. Can't go wrong with one. As mentioned the Bach 42B would be the next most popular. But whatever you get, as also mentioned, large bore only!!!
     
  8. TIMBONE

    TIMBONE Active Member

    I would agree that the Conn 88H is the best to go for.
     
  9. holy_mary

    holy_mary New Member

    Try a boosey and hawkes imperial.They are the finest troms you could buy.Forget the upstarts that sniff at them,they don't know what they are talking about.(A bad workman always blames his tools):D
     
  10. TIMBONE

    TIMBONE Active Member

    Hi holy-mary, welcome. Boosey and Hawkes Imperial, lovely little piece of medium bore stirling silver plated brass - I mean it, George Chisholme played one. I love history.
     
  11. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    YOU MUST BE JOKING
     
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  13. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    There's no need to be shouting here... Everybody is entitled to his own opinions.
    Maybe you can give some objective reasons why this type of trombone wouldn't be the best choice (sort of like Timbone did in his post)?
    (I don't know a thing about trombones, except that they have slides; so I may learn something as well ;) )
     
  14. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    Read my previous posts. If someone wants to play professionally, then there is only one instrument for them. If they want to play in a brass band, then the choice is, admittedly, much larger, but that was not the question. If anybody seriously thinks a B&H Imperial is suitable for the LSO, then obviously us professionals know nothing.

    Btw, if anybody is questioning credentials, may I direct them to 4BR professional cards? You'll find me under 'W'.
     
  15. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - is it fair to say that the needs of a professional symphony orchestra with respect to choice of trombone is going to be different to the needs of say, small ensembles (mixed with winds and/or strings) or a jazz setup? Players such as Mark Nightingale or Bill Watrous use smaller bore troms. (miked-up) use to get desired results.
     
  16. most players have conn 88H and i must say i love mine!! i wouldnt swap it for anything! i tried out a rath a while ago and i much prefer my conn!! i think all or most of the trombones in nybb have conns if i remember correctly so it seems to be a favourite, especially for people around our age.
     
  17. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    I agree totally with this point. It is a strange old world out there; in almost all genres of music, nobody really cares what it says on the bell apart from in the British orchestral scene. On the very odd occasion I play in small groups, I use a King 2B, but find that it takes a few days to 'find the middle' of it. I also found that the King worked well in my old job; 2nd trombone in the Mahler Chamber Orchestra. Because of the repertoire, the principal would use a Yamaha Alto trombone, I would use my King and the bass trombone would use a large bore tenor. This generally made a lighter sound than a large-bore section and was good for a Chamber orchestra setting.

    Another opportunity to use smaller instruments might be when the music calls for Alto trombone, but the 1st player chooses not to use one. Phil Harrison at the CBSO always prefers to use a medium-bore tenor instead of an Alto. I personally use an Alto when I can because I get a doubling fee!

    Back onto topic though! I might have been a little unfair in my previous posts in justifying the Conn 88H approach. I'll explain a little further: The orchestral scene in the UK can be quite fickle at times and it is very difficult for a young player to break through into the ranks of professional players (believe me!). The trick is, not only to be a great player, but to be able to 'fit in' with everybody else (including buying rounds of drinks!). There has been such under-investment in music and the arts, orchestras have to survive on a shoestring, meaning little rehearsal time. Players are expected to be able to sight-read a full programme of music without any hint of wrong notes or nerves. If a player is hampered by their instrument not quite matching the sound of the others, they stand to lose-out to somebody else the next time.

    The Jazz/light music world tends to have it's own set of unwritten rules as well, but there are very few players who crossover. It is also worth noting that there are fewer brass band players using small/medium bore trombones than there were 20 years ago. The main reason, I think is that 'symphony' bore instruments are now much easier to get hold of than they once were.

    If I'm being totally unbiased, the choice would be a bit wider;
    Conn 88H
    Bach 42B (hard work, but ultimately rewarding)
    King 4B (sounds a bit light)
    Yamaha Xeno (one of my students has one, but I find it a bit dull)
    Edwards T350 (v. expensive, but a bit anonymous sounding)
    Rath R4F (I've played one, but it was a long time ago!)

    Hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding.

    ps. Go for the Conn!!!!!! :biggrin:
     
  18. TIMBONE

    TIMBONE Active Member

    :) The reason I said I love history is because the Boosey and Hawkes Imperial is a memory, which was at one time seen a lot in the brass band.

    It is true that George Chisolm did play on one. He was a traditional jazz player also well known for his humourous playing, (which I have mimicked in the 3rd movement of "Four Moods", Humour).

    I have to admit though, that I was surprised to see George playing on a B&H Imperial on programmes like the "Black & White Minstral Show", as most professional jazz players at the time played on a Conn 6H or a King 2 or 3B. I was impressed by the sound he could make on a B&H!

    As far as this thread is concerned, we are talking about an instrument suitable for orchestral playing, with a trigger. You would not see a professional orchestra with tenor trombones any smaller than a large bore. I also think it highly unlikely to see even an amateur orchestra player using medium bore. The same goes for brass and military bands.
     
  19. JonP

    JonP Member

    88H Everytime!

    Duncan is absolutey right!!
    Conn 88h, No Question.
    Everytime.
    Without Doubt.
    Cant Go Wrong.
    No Messing.
    The Dogs Doodahs.
    The Origional and Best
    Avoid Cheap (or worse Expensive!!) Immitation!!

    You cant go wrong with the Conn!!
     
  20. brewerdan

    brewerdan New Member

    Thanks!!

    Well i'm amazed with the amount of replies, thank you all, um before using this site I was bias to be away from the Conn 88H, not sure why, but now I may go for it because I have played on one now and it was very good even after playing on my small-bore jazz trombone it made a lovely sound and whent from ppp to fff with an extreme amont of ease, I cannot even get to fff on my current trombone, it simply becomes a blur of raspy rubbish, so thank-you, I will investigate the Conn 88H further.
    Thanks Once More,
    Dan
     
  21. brewerdan

    brewerdan New Member

    Material

    Hi again, um a little off topic but, does the material of the bell (Rose brass, Yellow brass and Nickel/Silver) really make that much difference?
    dan
     
  22. Di

    Di Active Member

    You're welcome Dan. Glad you've found some of the information helpful. :) As Brassneck said earlier, :hi to tMP.
     

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