Bass Trombone

Discussion in 'Classifieds' started by basstrom100, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. basstrom100

    basstrom100 New Member

    My Lad has a Yamaha bass trombone at the moment but I feel he needs something better, what would you suggest for a 15yr old studying for grade 8 and does anyone have any trombones they are looking to sell that would be suitable
  2. AndyCat

    AndyCat Active Member

    Which Yamaha?
  3. basstrom100

    basstrom100 New Member

    Ybl 6130
  4. AndyCat

    AndyCat Active Member

    I presume that's YBL613H? If so, there's nothing wrong with it! Don't get tempted by "boutique" trombones yet, many players are going back to standard makes after time with oversized Edwards and Raths etc.
    I play a 613H, as do many professionals around. Foden's bass trom player plays one too.
    Save your money, especially if the lad's not even done grade 8 yet.
  5. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    Totaly agree with Andy.....and have you consulted his teacher?
  6. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Yep, the 613H is a decent bass trombone that will see him good for years yet. Haven't ever seen any pros on one, though - perhaps that's a regional thing.

    FWIW, if you're set on buying I'm still selling my Conn 62H with CL-2000 valves:
    Asking £2200 for it, which is madly bargainous compared to how much you'd expect to pay to get one in the UK (>£4k). It's a more than fair price, but the market for bass trombones in this price bracket has dried up in the current economic climate.
  7. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    Why do the OP feel his son needs 'something better'?
  8. AndyCat

    AndyCat Active Member

    Doug Perviance (Vanguard Jazz Orchestra), Dudley Hinote (USAF Airmen of Note), John Miller (Winnipeg Symphony), Dale Pittock, Murray Cuthbert are all pros using 613H. Many more use the newer model.

    Not many in UK admittedly, and mainly Jazz and Orchestral, but no need for the OP to waste his money!
  9. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info!
  10. LittleEuph

    LittleEuph Member

    For what its worth, I agree with the others.

    My bass trombone is a Yamaha YBL 612- I have been playing it for nearly 20 years, and whilst this may just be me, I have found that it has a far bigger (and better) sound than many of the other bass troms I have played.

    If he is happy with the Yamaha I would stick with it, at least for a while yet.

    Hope that helps?
  11. SteveT

    SteveT Member

    I can only confirm what Andy has said. The Yamaha is well built and is easier to play than most of the heavier trombones around. It also has good tone and has less resistance through the entire range. I played one at Leyland Daf before settling late on a Holton, but I moved too early.

    The only problem I have ever had with Yammy's is when you play in a top band and have to compete in sound weight terms. I remember trying a tenor trombone for a bit and playing at a concert in the Albert Hall with Briguss. At the halfway point I had to go back to my American trombone as I couldn't compete on sound. My old King fixed the problem straight away.

    I would advise you to stick to a nine and a half inch bell at his age. Let him develop his Trom playing skills while being able to fill the instrument comfortably. He has alot of growing and learning to do yet! Also, just out of interest, which mouthpiece is he using?
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
  12. MajorMorgan

    MajorMorgan Member

    Even though they are not widely used by UK pros the 613H is a professional model instrument. I would suggest you are not looking for something 'better' but you might be looking for something 'different' - and then you're into the whole area of customised bass trombones, the subject of many, many threads on this forum.

    Your son is reaching the standard where his experience of playing is subtle enough for him to find limitations with the instrument in terms of his own playing style. It maybe that a different set up would suit him better.

    You don't just want to buy another brand second hand and hope for the best - I would take your son to one of the retailers and let him play a few makes and models and I'm sure he'll find something that suits him better - then you can start a search for a second hand model. And if money is no object then an afternoon spent at the Rath workshop can be a real eye-opener!

  13. basstrom100

    basstrom100 New Member

    its not that I have a problem with the trombone, more that it is getting on and not playing as well as it once did.
  14. basstrom100

    basstrom100 New Member

    He plays on a Denis Wick 3AL Heritage
  15. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Sounds a bit small to me? More likely to be limiting progress than the instrument, even if it is a bit clapped-out.

    Maybe the best course of action would be to take the 613H to Mick Rath in Huddersfield to clap it back in?
  16. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    What does his teacher say?

    if he isn't having regular lessons then I would advise a lesson, as Dave stated the problem could be and I stress could be a mouthpiece change, but not a thing to be entered into lightly as can cause more problems!!

    And get his current horn looked at by someone like Mick Rath!
  17. MajorMorgan

    MajorMorgan Member

    Ah ok fair enough - I thought the OP was saying that it was a problem with the model rather than that specific instrument.

    Like others have said I suggest getting his current instrument overhauled by somebody who knows about these things and getting him playing on a bass trom mouthpiece. If he likes Wicks then the 1AL is roughly equivalent to the Bach 1 1/2G which is a fairly standard choice for pro players.

    A fixed up trombone and a mouthpiece that will help him develop his sound and lower register should go someway to addressing the discomfort he feels with his current set up and will cost a lot less than a brand new bone.

  18. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think I'd steer away from recommending the Wick bass bone sizes bigger than 2 - the designs become a bit quirky and inconsistent with each other, in my opinion. The 2AL/2NAL is a good small bass bone mouthpiece, but the 1AL suffers the same way as the Schilke 58, on which I believe it was modelled - it's hard work to colour the tone - and the 0AL I have never understood - 1-1/2G at the rim with a deeper cup than a 1G. Would be a nice mouthpiece for a 1930s bandstyle 1/4 size tuba, but dulls the sound of a bass trombone. It does okay in my leadpipeless F valve bass bone - maybe that was the niche it was designed for... ;-)
    The 00AL seems better designed to me, but is a venerable toilet bowl - appropriate for some, not worth considering in this case, I suspect.
    Is it just me, or could the Wick company make some decent money by launching a completely redesigned range of bass trombone mouthpieces? US and German imports are expensive here, and the only other specialist range in the UK is Rath's, which are interestingly well-thought-out mouthpieces, but also relatively expensive.

    By the way - I'm sure you're at least as familiar with these as me, Tim; just laying it out for the OP in case it's useful. Personally, if something like a Bach 1-1/2G is what's wanted, I'd suggest finding a music shop with a box of Bach 1-1/2Gs, then trying them all out until it becomes clear which one suits best. I don't feel that there's notable commonality of design between the Wick 1AL and 3AL.
  19. MajorMorgan

    MajorMorgan Member

    I agree that the range of larger Wicks lacks a certain sense of coherence. With most mouthpiece ranges there is a sense of logical progression in design as the range moves down through the sizes but I agree this is missing here. A 2 might be a sensible intermediate step before moving to another brand.

    On the subject of Rath mouthpieces, I was lucky enough to get a gold plated Rath 1 1/2 thrown in for free when I bought my R9 two years ago and have played on it ever since. Despite the name it's actually closer in spec to a 1 1/4G with a similar sized cup and a slightly wider throat than the Bachs. It's also pretty heavyweight whilst remaining surprisingly compact.

    Anyway apologies to OP for turning this thread into yet another about bass trom mouthpieces. As you were...
  20. bassboneo

    bassboneo Member

    I play on a 613H and a wick 1AL Heavy Top and have no complaints about either of them!! Stick with what you have and dont enter the minefield of mouthpieces!! if less experienced its very hard to tell what is better than what. Plus most people dont play them for long enough to tell whether its improved or changed their sound. Go to an expert and let them give you advice on what they hear you doing. thats money well spent rather than to begin a collection of mouthpieces!!!

    PRACTICE is the way to get things out of his trombone that he wants to do, rather than changing the bone!!!

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