Bass Trombone Mouthpieces like Bach

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by B(r)assBone, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member


    I had the opportunity to play with a "Bach 1 1/4 GM" Bass Trombone Mouthpiece for a while and think it's a good MP. I would say it allows for very well tuned playing and also let me play very even.

    I also compared it with a Laskey 85MD, which needed more effort to let me play with the same core and stableness in mid or upper registers.

    The Laskey had a big advantage in louder dynamics and especially in lower registers, as it really opened up at a certain point and the sound was bigger compared to Bach.

    Is there a Mouthpiece that is as well tuned as the 1 1/4 GM and opens up like the Laskey?
  2. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    In all seriousness... Try some more Bach mouthpieces of the same identical designation, particularly older ones. There's a lot of variability between individual pieces. Chances are a box of 10 supposedly identical 1-1/4GMs will have one in that is closer to your ideal than the one you have. 1Gs are worth a try too - same cup and throat, but wider diameter.

    Rath 1-1/4W and 1-1/4 might be worth a look too, or Ferguson L.
  3. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member

    Hhm, quite surprisingly! I thought that they are all made with high precision, but I can also try it.

    Have you ever had the opportunity to play with the Laskey 85MD and know what I mean by opening up in louder dynamics? In my opinion this MP really pushes (like a Turbo of a vehicle) when you get the opportunity to play louder.

    I like the stability and the well tuned tone of the Bach 1 1/4 GM. If it also had the "turbo" as the Laskey it would be great.

    Do you think it also has the same well tuned sound as the smaller 1 1/4GM? Cause this really surprised me when I first got to play on it.

    Okay, thanks for the advice!

    What "booster" do you play currently?
  4. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I believe Bach have got CNC machinery now, to tighten up variability. But certainly historically there's been a great variance. I've measured a 1-1/2G and a 2G with identical diameters before...

    1-1/4GMs will vary between the 1-1/4G ideal and the 1G ideal. Some are good specimens, some are bad, of all these sizes.


    I have an 85MD - I use it when I need to play ensemble-destroyingly loudly. So not very often! But it does the job.
  5. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member

    All right, thanks for this info!

    I was just asking for the mouthpiece you play ;)

    That is, what I also think - it's good for very exactely these situations!
    But the feeling that it boosts like a shearing force is great, which I haven't had before on other MPs. A bit of this wouldn't be wrong on the Bach. :D

    By the way: do change MPs between pieces in a concert? Normally, we have concerts with both types of pieces. In one you could probably use a Laskey 85MD, in others you couldn't. So, do you change between suc h pieces or stay with one MP for the entire gig?
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2011
  6. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I try to always stick with my trusty Bach 1-1/4G. It does sufficiently for almost all applications. It's a rare brass band that I can't honk through on it, and it's small enough to retain a lot of character in the sound while avoiding making the sound get fatter than I want.
  7. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member

    I can understand that! I read on the Homepage of your band that you guys also won the title best Trombone section in different contests. Congratulations!!!

    What would you say is the difference between the 1 1/4 G and the 1 1/4 GM?? Why did you chose the 1 1/4 G and not the GM?
  8. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Not being a Bass Trombone player my opinion may be of little consequence, however I can certainly vouch for the variations in dimensional tolerances on Bach trumpet mouthpieces of the same (supposed) model ...

    Once upon a time I bought a new 1.5C trumpet 'piece to replace one which was believed lost. Had lots of problems with range/stamina on the new one; then the old one unexpectedly turned up, and turned out to be nothing like the new one ...

    [I don't know how true it is, but someone once told me that the problem was caused by not replacing cutting tools often enough, therefore for example at the start of a machine run the tool cutting the inner diameter of the cup would be new, but by the end of the run it had worn down, therefore the cup would be smaller. Certainly makes sense from an engineer's perspective ... ]
  9. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Thanks! We didn't do quite so well at the next contest though...

    I've had the 1-1/4G for years - I moved onto it straight after playing on (quite a small) 1-1/2G from when I first took up the bass trombone. It did the job that I was looking for at the time (a sound only a little bigger than the 1-1/2G but with an easier strong low register) - it let me play more consistently. Since then, I've experimented with a lot of mouthpieces in various sizes, but found none that suit my playing all-round better. I find I just don't need the advantages of going bigger or more open, and don't like the disadvantages. I experiment less these days!

    You can find the differences between G and GM described in the Vincent Bach mouthpiece manual (pp 24-25). Essentially, the 1G has a bigger backbore than the other bass trombone models ending in G [you can drop an HB pencil through it!], and the 1-1/4GM and 1-1/2GM both have that backbore rather than the smaller one that size is normally made with. It's not listed, but I have also seen and played a 2GM. Some GMs are quite unbalanced, some are quite nice (generally those with a throat on the smaller side).

    p.s. Gareth - yes, that's exactly it, as I understand it. I've also seen some seriously wonky and missized throats on Bach pieces.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2011
  10. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member

    But you stayed with the same occupation within the trombones, didn't you? Is it a profesional band you are playing in, or are you guys doing it just for fun and as a hobby?

    I feel the same right now, when playing with the Bach 1 1/4 GM - it let me play consistently.

    Well, had not experiemented so much in the past, but that's what I do at the moment. But it's not doing me any good. I tested so many mouthpieces that I could really live with and each of it has its advantages and disadvantages. Currently, I think I will stay with the Bach as my tone is very stable and with good core. If it opened up more on louder dynamics, like the Laskey does, it would be the perfect mouthpiece!!

  11. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Haha, no. Just a regular amateur band. A decent one, but not an amazing one. There are pro players on here, but I'm not one of them.

    Mind you don't destabilise yourself... Too much experimentation too quickly can lead to not feeling 'at home' on any mouthpiece.
  12. Find myself agreeing with you again Dave! I have 2 1 1/4 g bach mouthpieces which feel and play very differently but were ideal for the holton. Moved up to 00 wick heritage now for my Rath, but only after 10 years of consistancy with former combination.

    Don't go a experimenting or trying to fix what ain't broke i say. Find a good un and work at it to get results.
  13. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member

    Has one of you guys ever tried a Monette Mouthpiece?

    How do they behave soundwise? What kind of sound is it and how do they compare with the Bach and Laskey MPs?
  14. Bassboner

    Bassboner New Member

    Bach 1.25

    Have read all these coments with great interest.I have used a Bach 1.5 GM for several years.(since ditching a Wick).After much deliberation i have purchased a Bach 1.25 G.I have only used it once, but am quite impressed,and would like to thank you all for imput you have all given.:)
  15. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member

    Let me ask you a question - why a 1-1/4G and not a GM? In my opinion the sound of GM is fuller without being to harsh.

    What is your experience with the Megatone Mouthpices? Is it worth it to try a 1-1/4GM Megatone?
  16. B(r)assBone

    B(r)assBone Member

    Let me ask you a question - why a 1-1/4G and not a GM? In my opinion the sound of GM is fuller without being to harsh.

    What is your experience with the Megatone Mouthpices? Is it worth it to try a 1-1/4GM Megatone?

    What do you think of Doug Elliot or Shires mouthpieces? The Shires New Classic shouldn't be too bad.
  17. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    It suits me. It may not suit you so well. What I want is a mouthpiece a bit like a 1-1/2G that gives me a little more leverage. The 1-1/4G does that. The 1-1/4GM is a different beast, more related to the 1G than the 1-1/2G. Also - I play a 73H bone, which tends to suit a smaller mouthpiece.

    I haven't tried bass Megatones. I did try a 4G Megatone once, and found it more open in the throat than I wanted for a tenor mouthpiece.
  18. lewis

    lewis Member

    If you're looking at Bach mouthpieces try out a stork 1 1/2. I quite often go back to the bach but the stork just seems to have a polish and let's me a lot louder without the sound going.

    The JazzShed in Cheltenham is the best stock in the UK 07803 617734
  19. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Interesting! Have you got one I could have a parp on some time? The only Stork I've ever had the chance to try was in a much bigger size, and was far too dark-sounding for my taste.
  20. lewis

    lewis Member

    If I can make it along on a Thursday to heighten my tuba skills I'll bring it along for you to try. I've only got one.