Bands expenses, the charity commisison website.

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by pullingtheplug, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. pullingtheplug

    pullingtheplug New Member

    With the freedom of information act now in full swing as it were, there is a whole wealth of information we can now access, and are able to see exactly how companies and businesses are run, and the state of finances.

    As many bands are now registered charities, I decided just to have a quick look at the charity commisison website, to establish how much top flight bands were making, and how their money is being spent. This lead to some very interesting discoveries.

    Firstly, without mentioning any names in particular, there are two bands (I shall call them Band 1 and Band 2), whose concert schedules are very similar, who charge similar amounts for concerts, and have a very similar financial expenditure. Therefore I cannot understand how one band's income is noted on the charity commission website as being nearly 4 times less than the other band in question.

    Band 1) £94,576

    Band 2) £325,425

    I am not in any way trying to make slanderous allegations, but I fail to see how with so many factors between the two bands being the same, how such a discrepancy can be? With the expenses scandal at the forefront of media coverage at the moment, was wandering what people thought of this, and whether there may be something fishy about the whole thing?!

    There may be a completely reasonable explanation, but after racking my brain for quite a while, I cannot envisage how this is possible, other than money not fully being disclosed.
  2. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    Perhaps band 2 charge £158.55 subs per week.;)

    Seriously though there are other factors such as CD sales, broadcast fees, supporters' clubs etc to consider.

    I'm in the "reasonable explanation" camp.
  3. Kinrao

    Kinrao Member

    Yet another anonymous Dyke basher!

    If you extend your search to Fodens and B&R you'll find that theirs are less than Dykes.

    You don't want to make slanderous allegations but yet you deem to make your username (presumably only for the purposes of this thread) "Pullingtheplug"!
  4. pullingtheplug

    pullingtheplug New Member

    For the record, I am not wishing to 'bash' anybody. I did expand my search, however the two bands that I mentioned I believe are the closest in terms of financial outgoings, broadcast revenue, CD and merchandise sales, concert fees, concert numbers and players paid.

    There are no 'hidden agendas' in my point, because surprisingly, not every comment or post has one. Take it as it is, I'm just asking the question.
  5. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Maybe band 2 sold a set of instruments they didn't need last year or something? That'd contribute to a hefty chunk of the difference wouldn't it? I remember reading somewhere that a large amount of the Money B&R made from Floral dance went into property. The sale of one fairly modest property these days could easily raise the amount of money that would explain the difference Between bands 1 and 2.

    Maybe band 2 organise fundraising events, run workshops and masterclasses at which an entry fee is charged, or have investments?

    The list of possible explanations is pretty well endless.

    Surely we should all be asking them for advice on improving our band's balance sheet!
  6. Baritonedeaf

    Baritonedeaf Member

    What a strange post. I am sure that the relative monies that can be taken for any group vary from year to year and from group to group. I am sure that the accounts make sense when explained at the band's AGM. Do you really know all the fees taken by two different bands? Do you really know the different concert and recording contracts that there are for two different bands? Really? Is it really of interest?
  7. pullingtheplug

    pullingtheplug New Member

    Considering the amount of rubbish posted on this site, I think this topic is as legitimate as 'what is your favourite rest' or 'who is the fittest male in banding', to name but a couple.

    I understand that there will be differences, but I think that a nearly £200,000 difference is quite a large one.

    I believe that any information in the public domain is within the public interest, as there are so many bands struggling with finances at present, and the bands that struggle mostly are those who do things exactly by the book, and cannot afford to employ accountants who know when the next tax break is coming, or which is the best method to avoid captial gains tax etc. But then again, maybe discussing the best material for spit valve cork is probably has more integrity.

    At the end of the day, this post was just on a whim, as I happened to find the topic an interesting one, especially during this current 'expenses climate'.
  8. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    It's like saying "Well Manchester united play 38 premier league fixtures a year, and so do liverpool. Man United play in the champions league and so do liverpool. How come United have more money?"

    The simple answer is "Becasue there are other factors involved you either haven't included or are not aware of."
  9. Columbo

    Columbo Member

  10. scotchgirl

    scotchgirl Active Member

    If you're really interested, then why don't you contact the bands concerned and ask them directly.
  11. SuperMosh

    SuperMosh New Member

    In fairness to 'pullingtheplug' then all she/he/it has done is to go to google and type in 'charity commission' and followed the link. By whacking any of the 'big' bands in the search box you see their accounts......

    It's scary though when bands are publishing money in that league - perhaps the monies relate to bus driving expenses from Whit Friday to help pay for their fleet of buses. Oh, sorry wrong thread.

    There seems to be this attitude on tMP at the minute where unless a new poster goes into 'introduce themselves' first and then spends 3 months standing back in awe and discussing their favourite mute type (thus building up post count), they are attacked for posting something 'meaty' soon after joining. Never mind the band bashing, this site is moderated and anything too salacious is pulled.

    What about new member bashing? It's not up to you lot as members to Police this site - that's up to John as it's his site, his rules and ultimately up to him what is displayed on here.
  12. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    So who ARE the bands.... and why doesn't someone just ask them to explain or give them the chance to come on here and discuss it?
    With earnings like that I'm sure we could all benefit from some hot tips!
  13. jockinafrock

    jockinafrock Active Member

    I would think some bands, irrespective of their income, happen to have very capable management committees who guide the band in making the best financial choices for their organisation - as long as monies are used in the development and best interests of their organisation as the charities commission stipulates.

    I'm sure no-one would even think about being underhand/hide true income/declare only what they want to declare/continue to stockpile monies earned but not reinvest back in their band etc. ;) Unfortunately I think this is what some individuals are alluding to, but I may be wrong?

    It costs a lot to fund a top flight band I'm sure, and they won't make the money to pay their costs by charging a hundred quid here or there at occasional park jobs. We're not all as financially astute as others...
  14. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    A couple of items [maybe issues] here.

    1 - new members registering only to comment outside of their usual username: As we all know, this is not permitted, but policing such activity is difficult because somehow we have to ascertain that a new member already has an existing account on tMP. This takes (1) time, (2) indicators of such which are not always easy to identify. When we are happy that we have identified duplicate accounts, we act accordingly.

    2 - So called 'band bashing': Well, the information cited here is in the public domain and so there's not much we can do about that.

    3 - So called 'new member bashing': Apparent 'new member' comes on tMP and in their 1st post decides to have an anonymous pop at certain bands (as has been pointed out in a response here). Easy to see why people consider this as possibly posted by someone already registered on tMP. We're not going to interfere at this level - we don't have the resources to do this. Besides, people are big enough to deal with this I reckon. We'll jump in when things start to get out of hand.

    Honestly... it's never easy, this moderating lark! :)
  15. bestmumgoing

    bestmumgoing New Member

    Interesting - you profess to know how each of Grimey and Dyke work, incredible. My advice youngster is if you are going have a go at something or someone - nail your colours to the flag dont do half a job. If you havent got the balls to name names then keep it shut.
  16. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Please explain to me the meaning of irony...
  17. MrsDoyle

    MrsDoyle Supporting Member

    If you have a problem with the so-called 'amount of rubbish' on this site, pullingtheplug, I suggest you contact John or Roger Thorne. As long as they are happy for there to be a random chat and off topic section on the website than that's fine. I fear we might have a bit of mod bashing going on from our 'new member' here don't you?

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