Ball or Vinter?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by marksmith, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    Whilst listening to my borrowed copy of " NOW, that's what I call Brass Band music - 72", I can't quite decide which composer I like best, Ball or Vinter.
    I love both but which is best and why?
    "There's only one way to find out - FIGHT!!!!!"
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2009
  2. super_sop

    super_sop Supporting Member

    *awaits pesky perk's reply!!!!!
  3. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    I hope that you are not trying to scupper my thread? This is a question of national importance you know!:wink:
    Bring on 'Variations on a ninth', or should that be 'Festival Music' ? See, I just can't decide!!!!!
  4. Alyn James

    Alyn James Member

    Have you heard anything about Harrogate, 1st Section, then?
    I've heard it's down to a short list of two....Var 9th/Journey Freedom....this could just be a rumour, though....
  5. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    That has got to be good news!
    I only wish that I was playing with a qualified band (playing at all would be a start!).
    I hadn't heard the rumour but I do hope that you are right.
    You do realise that I would have burned alive as a witch, in the 15th century, in this circumstance!
  6. sunny_jimbob

    sunny_jimbob Member

  7. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    Is that by Ball or Vinter?:rolleyes:
  8. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    An as yet undiscovered manuscript perhaps ;)
  9. euphojim

    euphojim Member

    This is rather like asking someone to choose their favourite food. It all depends on what mood you are in and how long it is that you have been without your favourite Chicken Korma or Fish and Chips. Today I really fancy some vintage Vinter but if offered Resurgam or another of Ball's masterpieces I would find it hard to refuse that. They were both brilliant composers and the Brass Band world is much richer because of their contributions.
  10. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    Its a tough one to call for me with both Vinter & Ball wrote great music which is still been picked as testpieces to play today.
    Its only by the slightest of margings for me but
    Gilbert Vinter as i just think the Baritone parts have got a little bit more in them to do and slighty more of a melodic part,also he went for the big finish with all his pieces which just leaves you wanting more.
    I think Ball wrote some lovely music but just falls short.
    A great thread this is and it will be good to see some good replys to it.
  11. super_sop

    super_sop Supporting Member

    Are you saying Ball's music is not as good as Vinter because of the poor baritone parts???
  12. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    The baritone part in 'Sinfonietta' is superb. I played it for the area contest '07 with Ibstock and loved every minute.
    Both Ball and Vinter wrote outstanding euphonium parts, I would say amongst the best there are. Not always the most technical, just melodic and sensuous.
    The euph part in 'Variations on a ninth' is something really special.
  13. jrshimmon

    jrshimmon Member

    To be comparing Ball and Vinter is a tough one!

    But when you think of Vinter all you hear is of his test pieces these days largely. For me Ball wins because of the volume of work not written for contest but for concerts and making his work accessible to so many levels of Banding and with that alot of it is still played. I would say that though, I am a SA bandsman so Eric Ball is just a part of the Culture like the uniforms and William Booth. I can not remember a band of any size or age group that has not played something of his work. If you have seen the Eric Ball Memorial Concert on DVD that Black Dyke Band and the ISB took part in together you realise just how much top quality music came from his pen and the concert had balanced feel to it too. And the repetoire came from both his Salvation Army Catalogue and secular composition catalogue.

    That said I would not want to rubbish Gilbert Vinters music. At times his work has been ground breaking such as the recent Regionals Championship section Test piece 'Salute to Youth', which was one of the first to have what could be considered a modern percussion part I understand. And although I have not listened to any of it I understand Vinter wrote a great deal of music for other music mediums. Which I understand is of equally high quality.

    One thing is for certain though, what would we have had if these men did not give us their compositions to play? If you list them (I'm not gonna as we'll be here all night) a large number of pieces from both of them would go in that list of Defining peices in Brass Band history. Moreover, without their influence on Brass Music would we have people like Peter Graham, Philip Sparke, PLC, Ray Farr, Michael Ball ..... again the list goes on. Doubtless these other esteemed composers will have in some way been influenced by Vinter and Balls Collected works.

    The Debate continues .......
  14. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    No Eric Ball wrote some great music Wayfarer for me as to be his best work he wrote and i did play it at Midland Area in 2007 with the WINNING BAND that day on Solo Baritone.
    Like i said its a very close call and the thread that Mark as done is a great thread and im sure will create a lot of responce from genuine members who want to give a valid point.
    If Vinter had have lived longer just think what he could have wrote for Brass Bands to play.
    Ive played works by both composers over the years and like each one ive played but from my view i just give it to Gilbert Vinter;)
    If i was going to score them both out of 100 it would be
    Vinter 100
    Ball 99.9
  15. DocFox

    DocFox Retired

    Eric Ball to me has a special touch of working several lines at the same time, making it sound like it is simple, but it is not. Vinter I have only listened to and never played. Vinter seems less subtle. Good or Bad? Neither really. Kind of a preference.

    But I love what Eric Ball has written. I watched the International Staff and Black Dyke Bands - Centenary Concert Eric Ball DVD and was even amazed again. No doubt either (and Sparke) can write great pieces. So far I have not be overly taken by Lovett-Cooper.

  16. Scongie

    Scongie Member

    it's Ball for me. The quiet stuff makes the hairs on the back of you neck stand on end. Played plenty of Vinter over the years and whilst I've always enjoyed it only the end of variations on the 9th gave me the same feeling
  17. brassbandmaestro

    brassbandmaestro Active Member

    You just really can't compare the two compsers. Vinter started to change his style of writing late on in his career, whereas Ball's music, is in a different category altogether. No comparisonis what I am saying here. i am not going to go into great lengths into each composer's style of writing, as I think all of us here know these two quite qell and their composing styles.
  18. marksmith

    marksmith Active Member

    I can't deny that you played for the winning band on the day Ian but I am a little disappointed that you have used this forum to remind everyone.
    I believe that the 4barsrest observer loved my baritone playing, above all others on that day, though this is the first time I have mentioned it in 2 years! (check the Ibstock comments).
    I do however appreciate your views on Vinter and Ball and agree with maestro, it really is a difficult call.
  19. i prefer vinter, dont like many of balls pieces
  20. Alyn James

    Alyn James Member

    Just checked this out ( I know,anorak :) )....What a comment - looks like the Ibsock bari was, by a street, the best on the day....I suggest that Mr Perks would do well to book a few lessons with this guy......;)