Assocation of Brass Band Adjudicators under the age of 40 without a box

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by snazzy_cornet_sound, Sep 16, 2009.


Good Idea

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
  3. Needs Tweaking

    18 vote(s)
  1. In light of recent comments this is my idea.

    4 Adjudicators out in the open, each with a scoring card (like strictly come dancing, dancing on ice) after each performance not have the chance to discuss how the band played and award a score out of 10.

    Create the association and ask BFBB for a trial contest (an area contest maybe) to see if this may improve the current adjudication system. Comments please and any other adjudication methods.
  2. My reason for the under 40's is to let someone else have a go.. I probably have worded this incorrectly, just a panel differant to ABBA.
  3. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Nice idea, wouldn't work.

    It allows no chance to gauge the overall standard of the competition. Also those bands early in the order may suffer from getting a middle of the road mark because you might get better, or worse, later on.

    Its a start though and we pehaps need to be generating new ideas. What about a public vote as part of the overall decision. Sure you'd get people who vote for their own band but make sure that the judges scores are weighted higher to compensate. Getting the public involved might generate more bums on seats to listen to performances, rather than sit in the bar.
  4. AndyCat

    AndyCat Active Member

    I'm not sure you'd get 4 under 40? Maybe, but the list has few that I know are under 40, although some may just have had a hard paper round.
  5. JR

    JR Member

    under 40s

    Could you make it under 51? - I might get in then....

    John R
  6. Tubamutha

    Tubamutha Member

    Good idea - I like the sound of this. I know people have conspiracy theories following contests which I ometies agree with - you can sit and listen to several bands, pick out who you think the clear favourites are and find that they are not even placed!
  7. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    How about a clapometer?

    Audience poll?

    or, my favourite,

    A phone poll. That way the Open could charge £1.50 per call and we could hire Ant and Dec to present the prizes!

    Flippant, sorry.
  8. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Has anyone considered the splitting of marks? Like they have in ice skating or gymnastics.

    50% of your mark for technical Merit, 50% for artistic interpretation.

    At least that way you might have more Idea why you won or lost?

    I suppose that relies on points actually meaning something.... which would rely on at least some objective criteria laid out beforehand.... which has so-far been avoided for about 150 years....

    Naah, file this alongside my Difficulty tarrifs for own-choice test-pieces Idea. In the folder that says "It works fine in the real world, but it'll never happen in brass banding."
  9. I like the idea of audience interaction, im sure it would draw in people to the audience, there are plenty of talented musicians around that are not a member of ABBA. Many of the players in our top bands for example. I could see Roger Webster being the new Simon Cowell :p
  10. Humphrey

    Humphrey Member

    Having read the various ideas on this and other threads, I'd like to throw this idea into the pot...

    We could have a delayed result. 2 adjudicators in a box and 2 in the open. 2 young and 2 old. Then we could run a series of polls on the mouthpiece.

    1. Those who actually listened to any band between 6 and 16
    2. Those who spent the whole day in the bar
    3. Those who never actually attended the contest

    After about a week, we could pool all the opinions and give a result

    Adjudication is a thankless task and I'm delighted I don't have to do it but if I did and had just spent the better part of 9 hours cooped up in a box, I would hope that the competitors would have the grace to accept that result. Bill Relton and David Read are the 2 most experienced adjudicators in the business. I thank them for their work and admire their tenacity when faced with the same barrage of criticism time and time again from disgruntled bandsmen and their supporters.
  11. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Roger doesn't wear his trousers up at his chest. Does he?
  12. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    On a more serious note, all criticism aside, what I would like to see, is the adoption of the adjudication system we witnessed in New Zealand. I don't know whether it;s the system they use every year, but for our sacred item, (In our case, a hymn) set test piece and own-choice performace, we received a CD with the adjudicator's spoken comments over the top of our performance - rather than written comments.

    It made it far simpler to relate what the adjudicator was thinking to what was going on on the stage than sitting down with a score and a page of remarks and trying to remember what happened.

    Plus the adjudicator can go into much more detail about each performance because we all talk faster than we write.

    It was a great system. Does anyone know if the Kiwis use that every year?
  13. Independent Silver Band

    Independent Silver Band Active Member

  14. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    There you go then. Surely our colonial cousins are showing us the way there?
  15. I don't think there are many that would disagree with you there, but this whole debate should be about improving the adjudication system as a whole rather than criticising individual adjudicators. There is nothing wrong with wanting more transparency and some pre-defined criteria that you know you are being judged against, hopefully making the 'interesting' results a little easier to stomach. It is possible to challenge the status quo without disrespecting it's representatives.
  16. Tubah

    Tubah Member

  17. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

  18. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    Only for the high notes. :)
  19. The Band Association of NSW has been using CD recorded reports at last years states and the 2009 Australian Nationals.
  20. Ex-Pat BBb

    Ex-Pat BBb New Member

    For what it’s worth, here’s my idea for solving the problem of the minor placings especially in contests where those placings are vital for prom/rel.

    The Adjudicators Club

    We maintain the professional adjudicators at a contest (whether a rule is made to include one adj. below the age of 40 is up to ABBA I suppose). These main adjudicators will have ABSOLUTE say over the winning places (top 3 on a contest up to 9 bands, top 4 10-13 bands, top 5 14-17 and top 6 on all contests with 18 or more bands). They will then have a 50% say in the minor placings, the other 50% decided on by The Club.

    Who can join The Club?
    Any person who has held a band registration card or is a qualified musician (A-Level or Grade 8 would be my suggestion) on any instrument. The Club would be run democratically and be self-regulating and would have a small annual membership fee to cover running costs.

    How will the system work in practise at a contest?
    Club members would show their membership card to receive a pre-printed form before the start of the section. Having heard all the bands they then submit the form at the conclusion of the final bands’ performance grading all bands from A to E. ‘A’ grade would be those bands in the major places (i.e. upto 6 on a contest of 18+), B-E equally through the rest of the field. (e.g. this years Open: Top 6 ‘A’ then, with 12 other bands, 3 in each category B-E.)
    The main adjudicators would also (individually) grade the bands B-E and there collective grades would make up HALF of the result.

    I’m sure there would be a fair amount of rules to be drawn up (i.e. a Club member will not be given a form where a band he/she has been affiliated with is competing)

    Club members would feel a sense of responsibility, they could attend ANY contest and enjoy a days adjudicating knowing there opinion will have some effect (however minor) on the results.

    Perhaps there would be no more room for complaints?

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