Areas 2009.

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Frontman, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. brassbandmaestro

    brassbandmaestro Active Member

    They either wanted a shortened version, like the new Kenneth Downie piece or a truncated one. Gregson did'nt want to entertain the idea for either version. That Dyke performance of Gregsons trumpets is awsome.

    The choral work that Vinter wrote, called 'The Trumpets' springs to mind. Ive only heard the cornet fanfare. Does anyone recollect the rest of this music.
  2. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I was referring to Vinter's choral work, The Trumpets.
  3. critic

    critic Member

    they usually do!
  4. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I would be astonished - and I doubt I would be alone.

    I've made no secret of the fact Vinter doesn't float my boat, but doing my best to be objective, Variations on a Ninth is simply not hard enough for the albert hall from either a technical or musical point of view. Other than the cadenzas - which are tricky but not likely to make a top-level player breakout in a cold sweat - there's little in it that's a real test of a top-level band.

    Last year, we got it up - and won on it, I might add - in a week and a half... with a couple of borrowed players and a lot of other commitments keeping rehearsal time to a minimum. And we're a 1st section band who've been 4th and 5th at our areas the last two years so nowhere near the calibre you see on stage in london.

    If that came up for an Albert hall finals, half the bands wouldn't even need to hand it out until the week before. In fact I don't doubt that if it was the 1st section finals piece, it would be criticised as too easy as well. 2nd section may be more it's ballpark.

    Anyway, back to the 2009 areas...

    I've been having a wee listen to Pentacle already - and it's not doing anything for me so far. Quite the opposite in fact. Maybe when we start rehearsing it I'll find the music in it, but just from listining it so far eludes me.
  5. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Are you serious?

    No, I've been clearing out my garage & going to the tip, and tomorrow I'm taking my kids to Chatsworth for a day out. Glamorous business, this composing :D
  6. critic

    critic Member

    Spectrum at london was the piece being talked about as for pentacle having heard the piece and vknow the composer it will be a test for the 1st section the music is there its being to bring it of the score that will be the test. As for vinter his music does not appeal to everyone but i will say this his early death robbed the band movement of one of the most foreward looking composers we have ever had.
  7. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I've pointed it out before, I'll point it out again -

    Spectrum was the 1st section area piece in 1996. Plenty of bands mastered it then at that level, at which it was very well pitched - choosing it for the top section finals would make the results a total lottery.
  8. critic

    critic Member

    they said the same about judges of the secret court butnot many mastered it. Spectrum is a great piece and yes some 1st section bands did a decent job but no one completly mastered it we all have our opinions thats what makes it so interesting.
  9. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Sorry, I assumed because you were replying to this post....

    ...that you were in fact talking about the piece actually mentioned when you said "it's been muted" by which I assume you mean 'mooted.'

    As I said above - maybe It'll grow on me as we begin rehearsing it. At the moment, from listening to it, it's not happening yet.

    As for it being a test, there's no denying it will - but remember that is not the be-all and end-all of a piece.

    Much as he's not my favourite composer, I agree with you on this. It's obvious that Vinter desperately wanted to move brass music on, try new and original things, and get away from endless transcriptions and overtures and back to music specifically written for bands. I'm not denying he was very important for brass music, and I have never done so... but I still don't like much of what he wrote.

    Hopefully the choices the panel have made with new pieces from new composers in the other sections shows that what he was trying to do still has some momentum even so long after his death. Long may it continue.
  10. critic

    critic Member

    sorry i did mean mooted and your last piece about the panel choices is foreward thinking.
  11. Andy_Euph

    Andy_Euph Active Member

    I think the panel should be given some praise for the choices of next years area tests, they seemed to have taken into account that lots of people over the last few years (a lot on this forum!) have complained about the lack of "new" music coming through, especially for lower sections. I also think that choosing music by relative "unknowns" to the contesting arena is inspired, as it creates a true level playing field, as I would assume 99% of the bands sections 1 - 4 will never have played music by any of the can't play Dan Price like Philip Sparke!

    I've had a look (and listen) to the 4th section piece, which i'll probably be playing, and its going to be interesting! Looks very difficult, and the scoring is different to lots of pieces we have played over the last few years at this level. A lot of secondary instruments are used more often that primary...which when you take into the account held by most at this level that the best players are sat on the end, could cause some major issues. Its going to make some MD's earn there money in march!! :D

    BTW was Salute to Youth not meant to be the area piece last year but got changed at the last minute?
  12. stevetrom

    stevetrom Well-Known Member

    :clap: to the music panel

    4/5 pices that most/all of the players wont have played before - thanks

    Really looking forward to seeing what Pentacle is all about, and I will definitely NOT listen to the CD until my band have had it out for a blow.
  13. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    Exactly the same points that Derek Bourgeois made about the piece many, many years ago. At the time he described it as a piece which would test the technical abilities of a decent Third Section band, and even then, it was hard to disagree with him, although I wouldn't choose it myself purely on musical grounds. Almost all of Vinter's works (of which there are, after all, only 11 which could be described as major works) fall into the category of light music, and written in a musical language which about twenty years ago was famously described as "as stale as an old biscuit". There's nothing wrong with continuing to play these works of course - they are colourful pieces which are highly listenable - but I sometimes think that too much importance is attached to the man and most of his music. Apart from which, almost no conductor seems to have anything new (musically) to say about these works. They've all been done to death.

    The Trumpets is an exception. It is the brass band's world Belshazzar's Feast, and indeed, has many parallels with Walton's work. In response to the idea earlier that a shortened version might be produced - what would be the point of that? Every commercial recording of it which has ever been made has shortened it already, to its detriment, in my opinion. I don't think the integrity of the music can take any more editing.

    By the way, there is a vinyl copy of The Trumpets (abridged) currently on Ebay, by the All Star Brass and conducted by the composer, for anyone a) interested and b) owning a turntable.
  14. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    In the light of recent opinion doubting the worthiness of Gilbert Vinter's pieces for our top bands, The Trumpets could be used as a basis for a new work based on it's content that has been virtually unused by bands. The ideas of Malcolm Arnold & Edward Elgar have been used in composition for recent competitions and a skilled & imaginative composer/arranger could do the same with The Trumpets. If I didn't put my point clearly enough in my post, apologies are due.
  15. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Not a bad Idea at all, brassneck. New slants on past works are often a good way of reviving interest in the original - as well as providing fresh material with a familiar feel, which is always popular.

    Question is, who'd be brave enough to take it on? With vinter having such a faithful following it's practically guaranteed to divide and polarise opinion - in a similar way to how Bram Gay's more faithful transcription of "Les Preludes" was compared with Rimmer's more band-friendly arrangement - and I can certainly see... ahem... "lively" debate surrounding the end product.
  16. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I heard online that someone was already working on a Vinter tribute or "sounds-like" project but don't quote me on that. It wasn't with the end goal of a National contest in mind. His ideas could be extended technically without destroying his musical ethos. A Fantasy based framework could be a very interesting concept and shouldn't upset his fanbase too much either.

    As for arrangements, I believe that if they do they do the trick in convincing an audience and players that the piece could have been originally written for the new ensemble, then the arranger has done his/her job.
  17. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    Yep, I agree - And i'm looking forward to Yorkshries best battling it out on Salute to Youth. I have listen to the CD, not bad quality this year, nice to see Faireys and Fodens on there too, I'm afraid to say I agree with Andy at the moment, can't hear a tune in Pentacle, it's a little like our A level compsitions here, good ideas pop up and then are swept away again. Sounds like a test but maybe not something i'll be paying to listen to.

    Andy - God only knows how I can spoil your piece! I've picked up a copy this weekend and i'm looking forward to getting cracking in Jan. Looks like a good fair test with some nice melodies, I like the haunting-ness (is that a word?) of the Lyonesse. Not sure my lot will be your best friends with the time sig's in the last movement, but it'll keep em awake for a while, Good work all in all I think, Who knows we may even present you with an Emley pin badge on the day!! :)
  18. I listened to the second section piece properly this morning on the regional CD. Have to say I'm liking it. Some decent percussion stuff in it although think we may have to speak nicely to our treasurer to buy yet more funky toys to play about with!
    Not sure that it will ever beat Dark Side of the Moon but, it is good. Some challenging stuff ahead in some areas of the piece for brass.

  19. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    One could argue that most of the classical repertoire has also been done to death in the orchestral world but that doesn't stop conductors seeking and finding new or interesting interpretations of them - and that's where the format of the contest kills our music. There is no room for interpretation in contesting so all popular works by definition are likely to become stale in time as conductors in the main stick to the score.
    Things like Chromascope which are less often played would take longer to "go off" in this way of course.
  20. Railybobs

    Railybobs Member

    Circumcision was one of the best test pieces for that section for a few years. There was no room for hiders. Although I think Vinter will haunt many bandsmen for a good few years. Good stuff - Looks like a good selection for 2009's test pieces.