Area Contest Disqualifications

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Matt Lawson, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    Just looking through BrassStats and noticed a few disqualifications over the years at the areas. Are the following down to the four minute setting up rule being broken, or something else?

    2000: South Yorkshire Police: 1st Section
    2001: City of Oxford Brass: Championship Section
    2002: Castle Point Brass: 4th Section
    2002: Grimsdyke Brass: 2nd Section
    2003: Watford: 4th Section
  2. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    I seem to remember a band in the Yorks 1st Section in the 1990s being disqualified for using an Eb Trumpet instead of a Sop Cornet.
    I think it was Yorkshire Evening Post Band.

    - Mr Wilx
  3. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    Just thought I'd better state that I don't wish any embarassment on any of the bands concerned - just genuinely intrigued.
  4. yorkie19

    yorkie19 Active Member

    City of Oxford were disqualified for fielding an unregistered player (looked on 4br).
  5. bassmittens

    bassmittens Member

    I believe SYP in 1990 had an unregistered player (or registered too late for the contest) and knew they would be disqualified - but decided to go on and play regardless. (We were talking about it in the pub the other night).

    Begs the question if the overly strict rules are still relevant today and if they help or hinder bands at area contests??
  6. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    If players are required to be pre-registered there has to be a cut-off point. Whether it's 7 days or 7 minutes before the contest is irrelevant in this context. It's the same for all bands and, if that rule is not complied with, disqualification results. I don't see that there is any reason to call the rules into question.

    Other than a rather selfish view that 'we've done the practice, so we'll do the performance', what would be the point of continuing, knowing that disqualification was inevitable? It just wastes everyone else's time and proves nothing.

    I note that the penalty for non-entry is the same as for disqualification (one place lower than the lowest placed competing band in that section). Non-entry might well be simply because a band either cannot find sufficient players or funds to compete. Disqualification clearly implies a breach of the rules (which might be intentional or accidental).

    There might be an argument that disqualification should result in a placing two or more places below the lowest placed competing band. Breach of the rules is surely rather more culpable than being unable to compete.
  7. 4thmandown

    4thmandown Member

    I remember a disgraceful incident at the North-West Areas about 12 years ago. Earby Band were drawn No 1 in the 4th Section, but on the way to the contest venue the coach broke down. The representatives of the other bands were consulted and asked if they objected to Earby playing last. No-one did - until much later: after Earby had played as it happened. Persons from the band drawn No2 objected to this arrangement, and subsequently Earby were disqualified. I was in the audience that day, and by common consent Earby were in definite contention for the top prize. Shame on you Band No 2 (whoever you were)for retracting on your earlier promise.
  8. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    I think it might be worth bearing in mind that perhaps that band may have had a genuine grievance of which you were unaware? I'm not being awkward, just trying to be fair-minded :D

    As Geoff says, the rules are there for everyone and any 'bending' of the rules on contest day must be agreed by everybody. In turn, if a band are not happy with the proposed rule-bending, they are within their right to object without giving a reason.
  9. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Not quite - they were disqualified for fielding a player whose name wasn't written down on the list that players had to sign on contest day. The player in question had been registered with the band for years. Which seems a bit harsh until you consider that they did exactly the same thing in 1998, suffering exactly the same fate. Once is unlucky, twice is foolish!
  10. simonbassbone

    simonbassbone Member

    Certainly a question that aught to be looked at by Kapitol.

    At the top end (Championship and 1st section) there needs to be proper registration properly enforced. (would anyone know if I registered with different bands in different areas under different names?!).

    In the 4th section the rules should be more relaxed to encourage bands to participate rather than the rules on registration preventing bands participation.

    Will anything happen? i doubt it.
  11. Di

    Di Active Member

    If a player is either not registered or not on the list, how do they even get beyond the registration room and on to the stage?
  12. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    If I remember rightly, in the City of Oxford case they were given the choice at registration to go on with the player and be adjudicated but disqualified, or go without and be 'legal'.
  13. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    May I point out that, although for Regional Contests the order of play is decided by draw, the Contest Management has the right to exercise discretion, so the final decision and responsibility for that decision is theirs and not that of any contesting band. There is also an appeals procedure available.
  14. Di

    Di Active Member

    Surely that would be the solution, unless of course the band cannot cover the part, ie, a principal player.
  15. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    That decision seems very odd. Even a principal seat could have been covered on the day surely? If it means finishing last, it's still one place higher than being disqualified.
  16. bignige

    bignige Member

    This happened to my band at the 2000 Regionals at Bristol. It was down to human error - a registered player was left off the handwritten registration sheet. We had the option to play without him or be disqualified but get an adjudication. The band decided to stand together and were disqualified. We appealed against the decision but our appeal was not upheld. Subsequently of course all bands got computerised sheets with all registered players listed.

    However the saddest part was that it was our long standing contest secretary's last contest before emigrating to Spain. He was devastated.
  17. 4thmandown

    4thmandown Member

    Exactly - especially as there are often lots of younger players in these bands. To have some mealy-mouthed, rule-stickler pontificating about "rules are rules" doesn't give much encouragement for participation, though I suppose it could be construed as being a valuable life experience for how miserable some people can be.

    I recall another awkward incident a few years back at the WMBBA contest when Abraham Darby School were prevented from taking part due to a technicality. Given that they'd left their homes at 5.30 to get to the contest was particularly saddening. It put me in an awkward position since I was on the committee at the time. I had to watch a player and a conductor who I very much respect being treated with an almost total lack of sympathy and understanding. I did vote for them being allowed to participate in the contest as all players were members of the school, so I saw no problems. I wasn't on the committee much longer after that...
  18. I know that if I'd dedicated however many weeks of my life to preparing a piece, only to find out we were to be disqualified due to a clerical error, I'm damn sure I'd want to go on anyway for my 12 minutes of 'glory' and it would be a bit po-faced for anyone to suggest we'd be wasting anyone's time but our own.
  19. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    That describes the situation that City of Oxford found themselves in exactly, as I recall [though I've never been a member of the band, so my knowledge may not be perfect]. Taking the accidentally-missed player on stage was a solidarity thing, as it's been recounted to me - they knew they'd get disqualified, but preferred not to shed a member.
  20. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    Forgive me for being totally blunt - but a certain phrase involving the words "nose", "face" and "spite" comes to mind!

    I'm all for teamwork, but if I were that player - I'd insist on sitting it out!