Are bands better in Yorkshire ?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by jackyboy, Nov 17, 2003.

  1. jackyboy

    jackyboy New Member

    Can't help but notice that the yorkshire area has a smaller number of bands in its lower sections than in our area. Is it because the standard is better ?
  2. faerie

    faerie Member

    Surely if it had an overall better standard the overall playing would be better because only a cirtain number of bands can move up/down every year cant they? (having never played in a contesting band this is the impression if gained anyway)

    So there should still be a similar number of bands in the sections as elsewhere. :?

    But, ignoring that, yes [​IMG] They are!
    (totally un-biased view there and all!)
  3. The Cornet King

    The Cornet King Active Member

    I'm sure most people will agree that in the Yorkshire Area Championship section they have the best bands. Ok they dont have the current national champions or Masters Champions, but they have a larger number of more consistent bands in the region.

    Skelmanthorpe have just recently won Pontins and pennine Brass 2nd at Wilkinson, to name but 2 bands who havent come high in the areas but can compete nationally.
    Then the likes of Sellars and Rothwell who are unfortunate, who in any other area would probably be at the nationals every year.

    As for the lower sections the numbers are worryingly small, especially 4th section and it would be good to see the numbers increase as they have certainly got smaller over the years.

    But again from a totally unbiased point of view (being a Yorkshireman through and through :D Yorkshire are better!!
  4. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    Good thread, I would love to say YES, and have done but sadly.. . . .

    The lack of bands in the lower sections in yorkshire is not helping the standard of the bands. i've conducted in the 4th section for the last two years, against 7 other bands on both occasions. The best band genrally wins (as in all contests) but I believe with the lack of bands there's not really all that much competition, I could name next year's top three now, and probably in the right order (Grange Moor, Crofton, Linthwaite) I hope someone pops up and suprises us but they are slightly above the rest. With so few bands it means the system of average points for promoted/relegated and re-contesting bands can be manipulated to be to the advantage of the band, i.e.

    Average points for a band not competing for the last couple of years would be 4+4 = 8 so a top 2 finish could see the band straight into the 2rd section! So i suspect the odd band that's had a last place or two (8+8=16) leaves the contesting scene for a while! you can see the advantages!

    In the third section the standard varies quite a bit from top to bottom! At the top we've 3/4 really good bands, and the rest are good bands but realistically are aiming for mid-table, Some of us (Emley now) got promoted from the less than compettitve 4th section, and came last this year (the other band promoted came above us by a place) This year will be interesting to see if the bands have settled into the standard, or wether we'll be at the bottom, and turn into a yo-yo band!!!

    We feel we have inproved (and filled the band out), and hopefully we can make our mark next year, we'll have to wait and see.

    I do feel that with fewer bands in the lower sections the standard needed to win is not as great as it should be . . . . but maybe over time we will see. . . . . . . . . . . .


    Not sure about the exact circumstances but a few years ago the Yorkshire Area Championship Section started the habit of allowing bands that appealed against being relegated through the regional grading system to stay up, the net result being that we have far too many bands in the Championship section with a gulf of difference in the standard. We have bands like Brighouse, YBS etc at the top, with bands like Sellers, Hepworth, Imps, Carlton Main etc trying to have a go at the big top 4, followed by (not mentioning any names!) bands that should probably be in the 1st Section.

    On another note, I heard some of the lower sections at the Lancashire Regionals, and bands like Diggle, Boarshurst and Hoover were fantastic and would eat most of the Yorkshire Area 1st/2nd/3rd section bands alive, so I don't think Yorkshire are any better if you look at bands across all sections.

    Happy Banding!

    Jigby Whinges Band
  6. rickcowens

    rickcowens Member

    well i think yorkshire have got a few strong bands from each section! yorkshire's championship section is the strongest!! but north west area have got alot more bands in each section making it harder to be promoted and they have alot ov good bands in each section! but on the other hand yorkshire have got good bands in each section but there is a big difference between eg, the top bands ov the 2nd section to bands at the bottom! so there for ive just made no sence! :lol:
  7. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    so the north west is better, but with less big names?
  8. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Standard aside, is it simply because there are just fewer bands in that area overall? It would be interesting to compare total no's of bands in each region.
    FWIW, 98 bands competed in the L&SC region this year, and half of those were in 3rd/4th sections.

    Am I right in assuming the decision to have 2 adjudicators for the Yorkshire champ. section this year indicates that the contest organisers think this region is better?!
  9. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    No. Scotland had two adjudicators last year. The decisions about number/names of adjudicators is taken by the Regional Committees. The Yorkshire Regional Commitee may believe that their bands are better, but so might NW, Wales, L and SC, W of E, N of E etc.

  10. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Or could it be that they think blunt Yorkshiremen are more likely to challenge the adjudicator's decision :?: :wink: :lol:

    (Personally, I would go for two adjudicators all the time, but of course it needs funding!)
  11. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    I think the geography of the Universities / Music Colleges has a lot to do with the standard of bands. In the Midlands we struggle like crazy as the only 'top notch' music college is Birmingham and that is a fair way away and not too brass band orientated. The North West obviously have the RNCM, Salford etc and for Yorkshire, Huddersfield has a great music department with a good brass band ethic. I definately think this helps and may start to explain why there are less lower section bands in Yorkshire. YBS,B&R,Dyke have the reputations to draw players from around the country, the top students go to the next level of band (Sellers,Hepworth,Rothwell etc) creating all in all a stronger section. The only argument would be London but I think that is more session work/orchestra based than brass band. Just a thought and no disrespect to Sellers, Hepworth and Rothwell meant.
  12. johnflugel

    johnflugel Active Member

    No offence taken Steve, see you at the Shield next year :wink:

    There has been a similar thread about this and about how Southern bands struggle where Northern Bands seem to dominate contests.

    It's all historical: brass bands are traditionally northern, working class etc So most of the best bands reside up here: players move here to pursue a 'career' with the best bands, subsequently the teaching on the whole is better (for banding anyway), college courses have become established in the North.

    Just to play devils advocate, I can name a number of players in the 'next-down level' of bands referred to like Sellars, us, Hepworth and Travelsphere who have players who have been and continue to be more than capable (and better in many cases) of playing with the Dykes, YBSs, of this world but cannot commit the hectic schedule.

    Rothwell Temps
  13. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    Do you want a list of all the music students and ex-students who play in the "top bands".
    I would probably be pushing the bandwidth limits if I did!
    In short, there's a lot :) students arn't "confined" to the "slightly-less-than-top" championship section bands.
  14. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    That is not how it was meant. I was not saying the top students dont get into the best bands, I was actually saying there is more strenght in depth as Yorkshire has both the tradition to attract players from further a-field and the local talent to maintain such high levels of competitiveness. Sorry for any confusion.
  15. Bumper Up

    Bumper Up New Member

    I think that the bands in the North West are better :lol:

    If you don't believe me take a look at the 4BR rankings and find out for yourself.

    If there are less bands in the lower sections doesn't that mean it is just easier to get out of the lower sections?
  16. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    Well it's certainly not L&SC :roll: :D

    *qualified to say that*
  17. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    hmmm, don't think you can say that this is exclusive to yorkshire though.
  18. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    not just yorkshire bands :p
    but i know where you're coming from :) presumably yorkshire ;)
  19. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    oops neil.. iv just "ditto"'d your post. sorry :p
  20. BeatTheSheep

    BeatTheSheep Member

    I would find it a worrying trend if the yorkshire area has less grassroots bands. Where are the players going to come from for these bands? also how will these championships bands attract local (loyal) players? they don't of course, relying on music students and experienced players who travel thousands of miles to go there (been there, done that).

    The north west appears to have loads of youth bands. Is this connected to the size of the lower sections (they've got to play somewhere, after all)?
    Where are the yorkshire youth bands? (dobcross is in lancashire, boundaries be damned)

    There also seems to be a trend towards experienced players to return to their home bands and work with them up the sections instead of travelling miles to band. GOOD.

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