Apparently ABBA are amazing!

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Andy_Euph, Jul 2, 2010.

  1. Andy_Euph

    Andy_Euph Active Member

  2. davidquinlan

    davidquinlan Member

    ha, "Adjudicators great!!" , say Adjudicators... :)
     
  3. Andy_Euph

    Andy_Euph Active Member

    They'd probably have to ask you to repeat that...apparently the most frequently used word at these meetings is pardon ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  4. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
     
  5. geordiecolin

    geordiecolin Active Member

    According to Homer Simpson;

    "The Coast Guard"!
     
  6. HowarthBrass

    HowarthBrass Member

    The Amazing ABBA.


    I'm afraid it's always been the same Andy.

    I've been banding since the late sixties and it's been a closed shop for as long as I can remember.

    There are even adjudicators still around, that were adjudicating back then.

    Surely there must come a time when some of them realise, they're past it !!!
     
  7. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    This, I'm afraid, is what you get when an association appoints themselves masters, and are accountable to no-one.

    Way too elevated opinion of themselves.

    Not sure how in reality, they expected to rise in kudos or credibility following this announcement.
     
  8. Andy_Euph

    Andy_Euph Active Member

    I think the point raised by the unnamed conductor is also interesting, in that 80% are able to judge anywhere in the world but how do they know what is expected abroad?

    I also find it interesting that there are 80% who could judge at the highest level yet one judge has been one of the three at the top section nationals every year since 1995!!!
     
  9. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I have noticed an increasing number of bands being slated for 'interpretation' in contest remarks.

    Interpretation is an entirely subjective criterion. It's like taste, it's an individual thing. Yet no hint of an indication on what the adjudicator thinks is the correct interpretation is given beforehand, except maybe a few cursory remarks before the draw on contest day.

    Put bluntly - it's down to guesswork. And if you don't guess right then no matter how well you play, you ain't ever going to win.

    Peter Parkes used to say "Doing everything on the score puts you in the prizes. The rest is down to the adjudicators interpretation." Which to me sounds pretty much the way it should be. The problem is that it's so often not the case.

    From a performance point of view, Brighouse at this year's area - by their own admission, were well below par. Just too many mistakes. However the reading and expression of the music was Jaw-dropping. They won, because the men in the box loved the style and chose ot overlook the errors. On another day they could easily have been sixth if the men in the box chose to ignore the style and focus on the errors.

    The same was true in the first section. As I understand the story one adjudicator completely over-ruled the other when it came to placings, such was the surety of his opinion on how the piece should be played. I'm pleased for Meltham, because there was a real touching simplicity about the performance and it did deserve to do well. But on another day, with another adjudicator (two of whom I actually spoke to afterward) Hammonds would have won by an absolute street. The reason they didn't? Once again, interpretation.

    It seems to me that interpretation is an easy way for an adjudicator to justify his/her decisions without any recourse from the band he/she is judging. If he/she says "Tempo is too slow" there's normally a mark on the score to confirm whether this is correct or not. If he/she says "Solo cornet flat in high register" a tuner is simple proof - although most of the time everyone in the room can hear bad tuning.

    But if he she says "The interpretation is questionable - it does not fit with what is expected of a piece of this nature" - and that's a direct quote from a recent set of remarks - then what is meant by questionable? And 'expected' by whom? How on earth is a band supposed to know that?

    The key question I have asked many times and never had anything like an answer to is this:

    Are we at a contest to:
    Play the piece as directed by the score, to the best of our abilities. or...
    Are we at a contest to:
    Play something the adjudicator(s) likes.

    If ABBA could answer that one it might lead them onto whole other avenues to explore... but whilever they're only accountable to themselves I doubt they'll be in too much of a hurry.
     
  10. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    I nominate Andi for the best post of the year so far!
     
  11. theMouthPiece Visitor Guide

    Find more discussions like this one
    ABBA
    good points beingraised
    sour grape postings
    subject
    accessible platform
  12. jockinafrock

    jockinafrock Active Member

    Not often I agree with Andi's reponses but I do whole heartedly on this occasion..:D
     
  13. jockinafrock

    jockinafrock Active Member

    Just another thought - I think it's a poor show that bands are marked down because of interpretation just because it's not the interpretation the adjudicator wanted :rolleyes:. Surely it's the intentions of the composer that are paramount - after all they've given all the indicators on the music to show how the music should be played. :confused:
    It's just like listening to a band play a different 'interpretation' of a piece that you are used to playing/hearing. Just because it's not how you would do it surely that doesn't mean it's wrong?
    Maybe some adjudicators are too stuck in their ways and unable to think 'outside their box'? Adjudicators should pay more attention to what the composer wants rather than what they want... :biggrin:
     
  14. Metoo

    Metoo Member

    The following is a current list of adjudicators as according to ABBA website.
    They say that 80% are good enough to adjudicate at the highest level.
    All I can say is you must be joking, some of these would have difficulty adjudicating a cake competition. The list also shows (Marked with a 'X', the adjudicators who have none or very little experience in modern adjudicating and according to some of the comments which where made on this site regarding the Areas they should not even be on the list.

    Michael Ball
    Peter Bassano
    Duncan Beckley X
    John Berryman

    Nigel Boddice
    Alan Bourne X

    Derek Broadbent
    Ian Brownbill
    Malcolm Brownbill
    Brian Buckley
    Nicholas Childs
    Robert Childs
    Paul Cosh X
    Eric Crees X
    Jim Davies
    Chris Davies
    Ray Farr
    Stuart Fawcett X
    Bruce Fraser X
    Derek Greenwood
    Dr. Jon Hall
    Trevor Halliwell
     
  15. Metoo

    Metoo Member

    SORRY I WAS UNABLE TO FINISH BEFORE IT TIMED OUT.

    The following is a current list of adjudicators as according to ABBA website.
    They say that 80% are good enough to adjudicate at the highest level.
    All I can say is you must be joking, some of these would have difficulty adjudicating a cake competition. The list also shows (Marked with a 'X', the adjudicators who have none or very little experience in modern adjudicating and according to some of the comments which where made on this site regarding the Areas they should not even be on the list.

    Michael Ball
    Peter Bassano
    Duncan Beckley X
    John Berryman

    Nigel Boddice
    Alan Bourne X
    Derek Broadbent
    Ian Brownbill
    Malcolm Brownbill
    Brian Buckley
    Nicholas Childs
    Robert Childs
    Paul Cosh X
    Eric Crees X
    Jim Davies
    Chris Davies
    Ray Farr
    Stuart Fawcett X
    Bruce Fraser X
    Derek Greenwood
    Dr. Jon Hall
    Trevor Halliwell
    Morten E Hansen X
    Torgny Hanson X
    Phil Harper
    Colin Hardy
    David Hirst X
    Alan Hope X
    David Horsfield
    Graham Jones X
    David Lancaster X
    Lloyd Landry X
    Stan Lippeatt
    Lyn Morgan X
    Alan Morrison
    Paul Norley X
    Graham O'Connor X
    Robert Owen X
    Peter Parkes
    Gareth Pritchard
    Steve Pritchard - Jones X
    Alan Ramsey
    David Read
    Sinone Rebello X
    William Relton
    Frank Renton
    John Roberts X
    Peter Roberts
    Stephen Roberts X
    Roy Roe X
    Brian Rostron X
    James Scott
    Derek Southcote
    Roy Sparkes
    Tony Swainson
    Sydney Swancott X
    Ray Tennent
    Barry Thompson
    Steven Tighe X
    Kevin Wadsworth
    Melvin White
    Robert Wiffin
    Dennis Wilby
    Chris Wormald X

    The reason for the X. is because of lack of adjudicating experience or just 'WHAT HAVE THEY EVER DONE IN BRASS BANDING'.

    I would guess that several of the above have upset one or two of you? Why not tell us your story and show them up for what they are worth.
     
  16. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    Prepare for the back-lash! You have put a cross next to some very fine and experienced musicians there.
     
  17. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    Doesn't automatically make them anywhere near qualified to adjudicate a brass band contest does it!!!!!!
     
  18. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    So right I'm afraid. Jaw-droppingly bad adjudication at this years areas.
     
  19. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    Andi Cook - Post Number 9 - Superb post sir.

    Many years ago my band (at the time) entered a contest and I decided to play one of the old style tone-poem type pieces. We rehearsed hard and I put an interpretation on it I thought was true to the score. When the adjudicator for our contest was announced somebody informed me that they (the adjudicator) had recorded this piece conducting a band under contest conditions and it might be worth a listen.

    I listened with the score and was pretty happy with the interpretation I was putting on it thinking the adjudicator would be thinking back to his recording. Oh, how wrong I was. I can only assume the adjudicator's band came last too (although I never did bother to find out !!!!!) I was absolutely slated. Tempos, interpretation, style.......you name it, that day I could do nothing right.

    The person concerned, in my opinion, should now have an 'X' by his name in the list provided....................
     
  20. Pav

    Pav Member

    Can we have a poll for the least justified x? There's 4 or 5 shockers at least.
     
  21. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    Well Kudos to you Metoo for several reasons...
    1) Actually stating your criteria for adjudicating adjudicators! (Unlike what they do before adjudicating a contest)
    2) Having the bullocks to call some adjudicators out by name and NOT being a cowardly anonymous poster, like many others (not mentioning any names) :rolleyes: ;)

    I don't know many of the adjudicators well enough to make an educated decision...but put a second "X" by Roy Roe on my behalf please.

    P.S. I think it is Ray TennAnt
     
  22. theMouthPiece Visitor Guide

    Find more discussions like this one
    ABBA
    good points beingraised
    sour grape postings
    subject
    accessible platform

Share This Page