Another PC thread... things go from bad to worse...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by TheMusicMan, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Headlines on leading law site:

    "It can be racist to make reference to 'bl00dy foreigners' even if the insult is no more specific than that, the House of Lords has ruled."

    The decision was made in a case where a man's abusive words and behaviour were judged to have been racially aggravated.

    A Mr Rogers was on his way home from the pub in the mobility scooter he uses because of his arthritis. When he came across three Spanish women on the pavement there was an altercation and he was said to have pursued them aggressively into a kebab house.

    There he was found to have used abusive, threatening or insulting behaviour, and he called them "****** foreigners" and told them to "go back to your own country". He was convicted by Winchester Crown Court of using racially aggravated abusive or insulting words or behaviour with the intent to cause fear or provoke violence, and was sentenced to 80 hours of community service.

    So... careful what you say to anyone nowadays eh!
  2. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Until the people of this country stand up to the powers that be and tell them they are not happy with the way this country is going it will continue.
  3. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    I am gobsmacked to be honest. I had stern words with someone a few weeks ago after being accused by her of being racist when I had explained to her the details of a situation my Brother-in-law fouind hmself in last year.

    I explained that he was asked by his employer to relocate with his family from Canada to the USA. He did the usual trips to suss out the area, then went for a visit to check homes, schools and the locale - but with his wife (my wifes sister) and their two gorgeous blond 3 yr old twins. When he was going through US customs, he was aggressively manhandled, told to 'spread them', cuffed, and taken away to an ante room - all in the presence of his wife and children who by this time were frantic and very upset.

    Apparently, he has his birthday (not birth date - just month and date) on the same day as a wanted terrorist, and the US customs officials saw fit to treat him this way.

    I said to the lady who I was explaining this to - that he was a white European with two young children, and was a British/Canadian citizen, and that most terrorist suspects were of Middle East origin, and quite probably wouldn't bring their wife and children with them if they had intended to blow any US citizens up - that to treat him in this manner, in front of his terrified wife and children was disgraceful.

    She then accused me of being seriously racist by making that comment. Well I am sorry, she can take a hike.
  4. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    Hmmm. Now I'm one of the least politically correct people you will ever meet, but I'm not sure that Mr Rogers doesn't deserve everything he got. If I was pursued into a kebab house by a ratty old g*t on a scooter hurling abuse I think I would find it pretty intimidating.

    Obviously we don't know the facts, but it reads like he was riding his scooter on the pavement to find his way blocked by three people who had the audacity to be walking on the pavement at the same time. He also might have had a few too many if he was on his way home from the pub. It doesn't matter what he was shouting at them - his intention was obviously to intimidate them.

    I think his sentence was pretty fair personally.
  5. Bryan_sop

    Bryan_sop Active Member

    Not racist....just stating a fact! if you'd had said all instead of most then yes, that would be a racist comment
  6. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Sorry, Dave but 3 able bodied people intimadated by a guy in a mobility scooter? I feel I would have just laughed at the scenario not tried to get the guy done for using terms that were racially aggravated.

    At the risk of being called all sorts of things, I wonder if this would have come to court if it was not of a racist nature.
  7. Pythagoras

    Pythagoras Active Member

    So saying things like '****** foreigners' and 'go back to your own country' are OK? If they had attacked him I could see the reason for him saying this in the heat of the moment, but that's not what your report says. The fact that he is in a mobility scooter has no bearing on whether anything he says is racist or not. Similarly arthritis has nothing to do with racism.

    What's wrong with the house of lords saying that something that is racist is racist?
  8. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    I wouldn't fancy being run over by one, would you? It may not be as dangerous as a car, but I bet it would still hurt! And where does it say that they were able-bodied? :confused:

    :rolleyes: So being prosecuted for hurling abuse of a racist nature is just being politically correct? :confused:
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  9. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    I agree that this is out of order.
  10. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I think you're spot on Dave, and was just writing a reply to that effect when IE went down. You can't insult and intimidate people and expect to get away with it. The fact that he chose to express his anger via a bigoted sentiment is merely a little extra background info for the case.

    That said, referring to "****** foreigners" shows a mentality that (by first overgeneralising, then insulting) is not acceptable in our society. Those words wouldn't leave someone's mouth non-humorously unless they had at least a tendency to a level of bigotry that helps no-one in the broader context of life. That is a good reason to find the man distasteful; his intimidatory actions are a reason to find him guilty in a court of law... Note that the text John quotes says "can be racist", not "is racist"; the law has to be flexible enough to accommodate all possibilities.
  11. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    The wording of the charge allows for "OR insulting words or behaviour with the intent to cause fear or provoke violence". So the guilty verdict was justified on that alone in my opinion too. I'd have nicked him.(Not really, but I would have told the silly old git to behave). ;)
  12. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    No its not acceptable or politically correct to hurl abuse of a racist nature. My point was that I doubt it would have got to court if he had chased after them and said you stupid women etc. (insert your own non-racist rantings here!)
  13. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    And the sooner we return to that style of policing, the sooner this country will be a better place.

    The courts need to be dealing with dangerous criminals.

    Just another thought there is no mention as to why he reacted as he did. What caused the altercation?
  14. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    Probably not. But then calling somebody stupid isn't a criminal offence is it? (If it is, there's lots of people I can sue!! :tongue:)

    Agreed 100%
  15. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    My point exactly to the lady who accused me of being racist Bryan. I was merely stating a fact.

    It is ver similar to another situation which relates to the Met Chief Constable being interviewed on TV and saying that the met was mounting a campaign to stop and question young black males, who appear to be between the ages of 16-24 in an attempt at reducing the number of muggings taking place across some areas of the city.

    There was uproar from the local black community.

    Thing is... he also gave figures relating to actual statistics on muggings and (according to the stats), 95% of all muggings in certain areas of London (the areas they were targeting in the campaign) were carried out by young black males, between the ages of 16-24. So, the Chief Constable was simply mounting a campaign - using his resources quite effectively targeted at the group of people who are most likely to commit that crime.

    Nothing wrong with that I say.

    Thanks Dave - I thought so too, and told her so.

    Question: do you think an organisation calling itself "The Association of White Police officers" would be permitted...? or would that be absolutely, 100% racist?
  16. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    It could be as Rapier states the charge is 'OR insulting words or behaviour with the intent to cause fear or provoke violence'

    Call anybody stupid enough times and they may punch you! (Will go 50/50 on any money you get from suing people!)
  17. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Apologies... here's the original article I read...
  18. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Exactly John, and that is why so many people get annoyed with the race laws in this country and how they only appear to work one way.
  19. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    In an old band of mine, one of my best buddies was black, we always greeted each other with exactly the same banter, who started it off depended on who saw who first. (Actually we still do it but by e mail now). It went, "Planted any evidence today? No, you knicked any handbags? No, but the day ain't over yet." Some people used to find it strange, bordering on racist (my lines) and say so, but his were OK. Funny old world.
  20. GingerMaestro

    GingerMaestro Active Member

    I'm not getting into this racist argument again as I am sure those of you who read my comments on the last thread will know my feelings on the subject.

    All I would say is he should consider himself lucky as they could have breath tested him and given him a ban from driving :biggrin:, I mean fancy driving a mobility scooter on the path at night after supping 2 or 3 San Miguel.:cool:

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