Another Copyright Question

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by impycornet, Nov 5, 2004.

  1. impycornet

    impycornet Member


    Where do we stand when, due to the incompetence of a Publishing house, a piece of music is physically unplayable due to the way it has been printed.

    I am talking about the Area piece Rienzi.

    Taking the solo cornet part as an example :-

    Page 1 to Page 2 there is 1 quaver rest ( at crotchet =66)
    Page 3 to Page 4 is in the middle of a continuous line of music
    Page 5 to Page 6 there is 1 quaver rest ( at minum=88 )

    Are these people having a laugh or what ?

    And that is just the solo cornet part - I have heard similar comments about the trombone parts & I'm sure that others also have the same problems.

    I will be in contact with Obrasso to see if they can come up with a suitable explanation otherwise we will ( I imagine along with every other Championship front row ) be playing off some kind of photocopied part !

    Just waiting now for the 7 sheets of errata to be issued :rolleyes:

    The above comments are entirely my own feelings and not to be associated with my Band !
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2004
  2. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    Wem, Shropshire UK
    The dreaded 'page turn' problems strike again eh!

    Just to remind everyone before you start photocopying parts/page turns that it is illegal and permission must be sort from the Publisher concerned.

    Can I suggest that, rather than contacting the Publishers for an explanation - which is irrelevant in the case of sorting out your problem - you contact them immediately to seek permission to photocopy the pages/bars which need moving to assist in the page turns. The music has obviously been printed without consideration to this issue, so the publisher, in my opinion, should grant you permission to copy. If they are made aware of the problems they could well make a public announcement to all bands competing with this piece that permission be granted to all bands performing at the Regionals. It may well be worth politely suggesting that they do this.

    Also, if they do grant permission to your band ensure that you ask for confirmation in writing!

    As to why this has happened . . . could be one of several reasons. Usually it is a 'cost' relating matter, trying to cram as much music onto one sheet to save money on printing or it could be that the arrangement has been typeset by a 'non' brass player, who has no experience of sitting in a band trying to hold and play a trombone in one hand whilst struggling to turn pages with the other. It could well be that this problem only exists on parts were there are more than one player - Solo Cornet, Eb Bass, Euph etc - who knows!

    What is annoying though, is why in this day and age this problem still happens. With all modern Music Notation Programmes, parts are generated by hand and if the piece has been proof read properly these errors should have been picked up and eliminated.

    Good luck with your quest Rob - I hope you manage to get this issue sorted.

  3. Maestro

    Maestro Active Member

    Romford, Essex
    A few years ago I was taking a 4th section band at a local contest. The test piece was a new work by Derek Broadbent, and the page tuerns were terrible. We contacted the publishers and within a couple of weeks, all the band in our section received a brand new set of parts, this time with reasonable page turns.

    Some publishers are very good like this if you approach them.
  4. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    Sarasota, Florida, USA
    I think many of today’s “music publishers” lack the experience and know-how of well-established publishing houses; problems with page turns are but one issue. We often hear of band scores and parts being littered with errors because (a) the copy was not properly edited in the first place and (b) a competent proofreader was not employed. Music notation programs for computers have meant that publishers can cut corners, often using the composer’s own input, which may look OK on the surface, but lacks the experienced notational and layout skills provided by an editor and an “engraver”.

    Engraving music in the traditional manner of yesteryear was an art that engravers learned from a 5-7 year apprenticeship. Today, some people think that all the knowledge one needs is contained in a computer program (e.g., Score, Sibelius, Finale). Not so!

    I see and hear too many pieces played by brass bands that really needed some editing before being published. Does nobody care about standards any more?

    (I speak from over 40 year’s experience as a music editor, having worked for publishers including Schott, Eulenburg, Josef Weinberger, G. Schirmer, Boosey & Hawkes, Neil A. Kjos, and The Salvation Army (SP&S).)
  5. lynchie

    lynchie Active Member

    South London
    there's always the scissors option... just cut the page in half somewhere where you have some rests and just turn over the top half so you can continue on to it, and then turn over the bottom half at a more convenient moment... had to do that a few times in the past...

    still, asking the publishers for copying permission is probably a better idea.
  6. impycornet

    impycornet Member

    That's the point..... there are no rests to even cut the page !!!
  7. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Then it must be the arranger's fault!
  8. If there are no rests at all, isn't it a bit harsh to complain that the page turn doesn't come where the bars rest are......?

    Perhaps they should just have printed it in smaller fonts so it all fits onto one page?
  9. impycornet

    impycornet Member

    Perhaps should have been a bit more specific with previous posting.. There are no obvious bars rest where a page cut can be made. Anyway - It shouldn't be necessary for the purchaser of a set of parts to then do the publisher's work for them ? If the piece had been printed with a front cover and a couple of amendments to 2 other pages everything would have have been fine - But that would have meant using another sheet of paper So obviously not the route the publisher chose to take.
  10. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    There is a point here that the publisher has to make a dollar and an extra page costs! I have no sympathy with sloppiness, but at the end of the day nobody gets rich on brass band music.

    If your page turns are bad, use your memory. I've learned half a page of music before now so page turns weren't a problem. Turn when it's more convenient. I've seen people cut the page in half so they can turn it over after playing the top whenever it is convenient and then turning the bottom when necessary.

    One of my (many) embarrassing moments was when I was playing from one of these cut parts which refused to stay on the stand properly and came out with the immortal "What tosser did this to this music?" when the person was right next to me.

    Sorry, but I can't raise much sympathy.
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