All Our Working Lives

Discussion in 'The Auditorium - Concert Details' started by David Mann, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Yep. Since the 70s we've forgotten how to build stuff, and the Germans haven't. Cars being the most obvious example, but I know more about my industry - printing. If I was asked for a list of major European litho press or print finishing equipment manufacturers I'd definitely include KBA, ManRoland, Heidelberg, Polar, Wohlenberg, MBO, Horauf, Kugler-Womako, Renz - all German. Try finding a British equivalent, it's just not something we do anymore. I also find it hard to source proper old-fashioned engineering work; if we want a replacement part making, or a repair, we have a little engineering workshop in Hyde we can send stuff to, but all the guys in there are over 50 and there is no succession plan. No-one wants an apprenticeship there, so when the last guy retires the business will close and those skills will be lost.
     
  2. worzel

    worzel Member

    Yeah, this is all part of the same problem of too many people going off to uni. I don't know the history of it, how we got here n'all, but apprenticeships and trade qualificatons seem to be considered second rate to a degree these days.
     
  3. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    I'm biased because I chose to do this, but I did my degree on day release while working in industry the other 4 days. It took 5 years but I got academic qualifications, experience and pay. Only missed out on student social life and consequent liver damage.
     
  4. Super Ph

    Super Ph Member

    care to back that up at all?

    German economy is around 30-something% manufacturing, much of which is not especially profitable. in the UK that figure is closer to 20%.
    German economic problems are tied to membership of the euro, a few dodgy banks, and the recent addition of 6 states from an ex-soviet bloc country. we had a housing bubble and a large financial services sector. there really isn't a comparison to be made.

    as for those copycat japanese or lazy procrastinating Germans, i'm not going to comment.
     
  5. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Well whatever. You can argue as much as you like, sadly your anonymity and the lack of context that goes with it means I can't really decide if your point is valid or not. But before you reply to that, remember the words in my first post were not mine - they are the words of one of this country's leading industrialists, so unless you happen to be even more successful than Sir Anthony Bamford, I'd say his opinion is a heck of a lot more informed than yours.

    Oh and stop trying to play the 'racist' card and stop mis-quoting me - I never said Germans were lazy. Those opinions happen to have been formed by working closely with both German and Japanese engineers over the last 15 years. In fact if you'd care to ask them yourself they'd probably confirm my comments. The cultural differences between English, German and Japanese engineers are the very thing that make them exceptionally good at what they do.
     
  6. Errol

    Errol Supporting Member

    Spot on as usual Andy, :clap: As an engineer I despair for the future of this country. Thanks to every government since the mad witch (Thatcher), we now have no manufacturing/engineering industry to speak of, and therefore have no power in the world marketplace.
     
  7. Super Ph

    Super Ph Member

    feel free to check the facts! i appreciate that they diverge from the cosy little narrative you have been advocating, so might be unwelcome.

    success in industry does not make an opinion more or less valid.

    i thought i made it clear that i am not interested in pursuing this line of argument. at best it adds nothing. there are good engineers all over the world, and bad ones.
     
  8. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    You haven't posted any facts yet. I'm not sure what 'cosy little narrative' you're reading - the situation doesn't feel very cosy from where I'm sat. So tell me, seeing as we're 100 years out of date in manufacturing, what's your master plan?

    Maybe, maybe not. But it does give it some context. Unfortunately I may as well grab a random person in the street in any city on any day as seek the opinions of people here. There is a chance I could bump into an economic genius who knows the exact answer. Equally I could bump into someone who can't even spell government. The odds are the same in cyber space as in real life. I don't know you from Adam, so I'll take Sir Bamford's opinion over yours. At least until you persuade me to think otherwise - something that is lacking in any of your posts so far.


    Funny how you keep bringing it up then isn't it.....

    I never said there wasn't did I? As you brought this up for the third successive post I'll repeat what I've said before, different nationalities have different ways of getting to the answer. That's it. No sub-text. No hidden xenophobia.

    So I really have finished with this now. How about in future instead of just telling me I'm wrong, tell me why what I've said is wrong. Then I might respond to your posts in a more positive way.
     
  9. Ian Pearce1

    Ian Pearce1 New Member

    Hi David,...Just joined here as I saw your post and wanted to reply.
    I played percussion with Grimethorpe during the mid-70's including the proms performances. I was the youngest member being only 15-17 (74-76)....My last work as a member of the band was summer of '76 just before their now famous bi-centennial tour of the USA. We recorded 6 albums at Huddersfield Town Hall during the May-June period for various labels and these included the Holst, Elgar recordings that I still hear everywhere (they continue to release them as if they are new!) and Howarth's 'Fireworks' from the '75 Open as well as a couple of entertainment albums.....one with Bryden Thomson at the helm and the other with Elgar Howarth.
    I left to move to London to pursue a career as a drummer in the world of rock n' roll !...However, in mid-1981 I was asked by the band to join them at Abbey Road, Studio 1, where we met with Carl Davis and following brief rehearsals we recorded the theme music to the forthcoming BBC series 'All Our Working Lives'. There were a number of sessions for this over a period of months (81-82 I think) but the theme and shipbuilding episode were recorded first in one session. The percussionist with Grimethorpe at the time was Steve Kohut. We had grown up together as we were pupils of Len Addy who had been at Grimethorpe in the late 60's until 1970 I believe. Steve played the Snare Drum and I played Timpani and Cymbals. The same band in the same studio had recorded backing for Roy Harper's 'When an Old Cricketer Leaves the Crease' in Feb 1975 and that is still for me the greatest 'sonic' achievement in the history of brass band recording....the sound is simply rapturous!....so there was a massive 'dumbing down' for this BBC recording when they were trying to make us sound like we were in the victorian park bandstand. I think they succeeded lol!......Best wishes, Ian.
     

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