All cornet players...

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Matt Lawson, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    If you had a choice, which would you pick first out of the following:

    2nd man down.

    What are the pro's and cons of each?

    I'm considering asking for a move but I don't know, kind of a big decision to make.

    Hope no-one from my band reads this :(
  2. OLIVE

    OLIVE New Member

    I presume looking at your signature that you already know the pro's and con's of 2nd man down! If you have ambitions to play principal cornet in the future i woud opt for Rep personally.
    I know in most top bands rep is considered to be 1 step away from top man/woman!
  3. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Well-Known Member

    This is probably not the same for everybody, but I like the 2nd man down seat. In the bands I have played with, the rapport between the first two players has always been excellent and the principal cornet has been one of those players with a great sound, but who might not be the "power" player.
    The 2nd man down has been one of those players who can play all night, ascend into the heights and produce the power when needed, but who might not have such a beautiful soloistic cornet sound.

    The rep seat is more of a seat for those with the true cornet sound - it is basically the principal seat of the back row (sop doesn't really count - a different beats altogether). A great seat for someone with a good sound, who is able to lead.

    This might not be the same for all bands, but with that being the case, I like the 2nd man down seat.
  4. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    Not in ours.

    I do believe there is a mentality in our band that rep is a step between 2nd Cornet and Solo cornet.

    I may be wrong, but I always thought rep was the second best cornet player in the band?

    I don't want principal, extremely happy with the one we've got.
  5. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    Very true in our band actually.

    I have big lungs and get told off for playing too loud very often :biggrin:
  6. imthemaddude

    imthemaddude Active Member

    Naturally!!!!!! ;)
  7. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I turned down rep. in a band many years ago thinking it was a backward step from the front row. I just didn't see the point at that time. Such is youth! I have always seen the part as being a bridging part between sop. and back row (2nd/3rd cornets). Maybe the older scores when it joined ranks with the flugel was a put-off for me! Even today, it's not commonplace to find solos written for that part (okay, 'On Alderly Edge' is a major exception). But now, it is accepted that the rep. player is recognised as being next best to principal ... but what a waste in terms of role play and a problem maybe for composers/arrangers.
  8. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Well, try rep. That way, you don't have to sit IN FRONT of the sop any more! :)

    Seriously, though; try the alternative to what you do now. Why not? And then go back onto 2nd and 3rd for a bit. Think I'm mad? Maybe, but if you're the inquisitive type then it will give you a better idea of what role each part plays within the band and what it sounds like when playing in different sections. Personally, I just like doing my bit to contribute to the band, wherever I sit. If you've already done 2nd and 3rd before, it may be because at the time you were a more inexperienced player. Try it now! Sometimes (depending on the piece/s) they get some b@stard fingering! Good practice!
  9. Sam Atherton

    Sam Atherton Member

    Given the choice I'd go for rep, I think (although I'm sat 2nd man down at the mo). It depends on the stuff you're playing though - sometimes rep is a fantastic part with nice solos and interesting harmonies, other times it's off-beats played a third higher than the 2nd cornet!

    If you have the chance to try both without disrupting the band or upsetting anyone then you should do it. The holiday season should be ideal for having a go at different parts.
  10. Matt Lawson

    Matt Lawson Member

    Aye it's slightly more complicated than just shifting around.

    We have 5 front row and about 6 back row but there is a bit of uncertainty about where everyone sits.

    If I move back, methinks there's no going back to the front row without being 5th man down.
  11. supersop_1

    supersop_1 Account Suspended

    i agree with trumpet mike .also If you have any ambitions to go onto principle cornet at sometime you are better off playing rep because you will have more solo parts within pieces than you will get on 2nd man.In quite a lot of bands the rep player fills in when the principle is not there
  12. vonny

    vonny Member


    What is the reason you're considering a move from your current position?
    I have to say that my favourite part in the band is 3rd cornet, because i believe that this part is a kind of under-tone for the rest of the section... I am 2nd man down currently in my band, and although i love playing it, i would move onto 3rd cornet anyday... pleeeeeeeeeeeease les! ;)

    Anyway i think you should go with whatever you feel is best, there are pro's and con's to every part in the band.


    Eccles Borough Band
  13. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    Really when did you stop being principle?

    I'd go for Rep everytime. In most bands I've been in the Rep is thought of as the 2nd best cornet player or Principle of the future. I've played rep in a couple of bands and then stepped in on Principal when he/she has been away. If you have designs on being Principal one day then Rep is definately a good place to start.
  14. Sam Atherton

    Sam Atherton Member

    While I was on holiday over christmas, I think! We had quite a lot of players join recently including a better cornet player, so second man down it is.
  15. catherine_S

    catherine_S Member

    Sorry Matthew, they have :D :D

    I agree that if you moved onto Rep you'd find yourself back at the bottom of the front row pecking order. BUT if you made it clear to the man in the middle (whoever he/she may be after September ;) - are there any hopefuls out there?) that you'd like to cover Rep when she ain't there, I'm sure this would be welcome! And would stop the endless "Well can somebody get the folder and play Rep for this one??"


  16. Craigsav83

    Craigsav83 Active Member

    Rep for me. IMHO, your 3 best cornet players should be (in no particular order) sop, principal and rep. Rep always seems a route to the pc seat. I think if you play 2nd, 3rd or 4th man down thats pretty much where you are going to stay.

    What it really boils down to is where do you see yourself in the future? If you do ever see yourself wishing a pc seat, then the rep is the better position. If not, keep with 2md.

    Just my humble opinions ;-)
  17. iggmeister

    iggmeister Member

    I don't subscribe to the 'Rep is 2nd best cornet player', '2nd man down is the powerhouse' theories. What is best is a balanced section. Have you considered what is he best position for you from the perspective of the band? As far as I am concerned the first consideration in making any move within a band must be "What is best for the band?"

    I think it must also depend on the band and how good the individual players are in the section.

    If you are good enough then you can play in any seat! If someone better than you comes into the band then you either get demoted or have to practice harder. That is (at least in my band) the reality. If you are sat bottom 3rd cornet then you are being listened to just as much as the front row or any other player. If you improve and justify a move (and that move is for the good of the band) then that should be done. That move could be to the front row or wherever.

    I see it as key that you have strong players on 2nd and 3rd cornet with a weaker one in between. The section becomes more balanced and the weaker players should, theoretically, get good experience playing next to better players. You would hope that that situation would maximise their chances to improve and become a stronger team member. A stronger team leads to a better band and a better environment within which you can improve as an individual.

    It's never easy to make any move and the trouble with cornet players is that they are self centred. It's best to think of the team rather than the individual. It is, after all, the biggest team within a band. Its no good having a really strong principal, 2nd man and rep if the rest of the section cannot keep up.

    The best bands in the country aren't the best because they have the best soloists - its because they have the best 2nd and 3rd cornets, 2nd horns, second baritones etc etc.

    Good luck with whatever decision you make.

  18. cornetgirl

    cornetgirl Active Member

    Rep every time! It's a fantastic seat, you end up being part of every section if a part is well written but without the same amount of pressure a solo seat has.

    Rep rules!

    Rach x
  19. cjconnor24

    cjconnor24 Member

    If given the choice, (although im more of a flugel player this weather), i would go for rep!

    I would say its one of the more important elements of a band. Good elements for a rep player i think would have to be, a good tone/sound as, depending on the piece, there is quite a bit of solo work. Also technical ability, most of the most i have played with have excellent rep players!

    If you hope to become principal, would def go for rep, looks good on the C.V.;)

  20. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Very true, on top section test pieces the back row parts are just as hard as the front (maybe even more with the lower notes/lots of back valve work potentially involved). Plus sometimes you go from "um-chucks" in an overture one week to test-piece the next, makes you concentrate!

    Anyway, back on topic! I think it depends on how much of a soloist you are/would like to be. To me rep is more of a "solo" position than 2nd man (that's not to say the 2nd man doesn't ever get solos, just not so often), maybe that's why it's thought of as the "future principal" seat by some. I was on rep before going on top chair, though, maybe a poll to see how many people did the same might give you an idea?

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