Advice Needed

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by CaharleyFarley, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. When I first started playing, I was tought to "tongue" a note with the tongue between the lips (as if spitting out a tomato pip).

    Although some books advocate this method - most state the tongue should be placed behind the top teeth. I can now produce notes using both methods, but must admit that it is much more comfortable using the "between the lips" method.

    Your views would be appreciated.
     
  2. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    if the cap fits - wear it!
    I think I'm closer to your method too.
     
  3. The Cornet King

    The Cornet King Active Member

    mmm very interesting.
    Ive just read your message and immediately went for my cornet to 'test this out'!!

    I thought before that the 'between the lips method' would probably produce a lesser quality note and sound and i found that to be true. I have always been taught to tongue behind the top teeth, as it produces a better quality sound.

    If you are moving on to double and triple tongueing then i cant see how the 'between the lips' method could possibly work.
    I would strongly recommend staying with the tongue behind the top teeth, certainly for future playing.

    Hope this helps. :D and welcome to tMP.
     
  4. super_sop

    super_sop Supporting Member

    mmmm i tend to tonge between my lips also, and have been trying to change for years.
    Unfortunately i have a problem with my top teeth, i have a big gap in them, they also sit infront of my bottom teeth. This means i cant produce a note properly when my tongue is behind my top teeth.
    I will be watching this thread with great interest for any advice given.

    oh and welcome to TMP, a great first post!
     
  5. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    I too have a slight overbite between the top and bottom teeth (I think most people do), however I was always taught that the tongue goes behind the top teeth, thus shutting the air off cleanly. I've never tried between the lips, in fact I had only heard it for the first time from my sons teacher. Not sure I agree with it but there you go, whatever works I guess.
     
  6. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    definatly behind top teeth.. between the lips produces more spit going through the instrument, a less quality sound and prevents a nice open embrouchoure (however you spell it) in my opinion...

    8)
     
  7. leisa

    leisa Active Member

    Behind the teeth!! i just went to try it out it feels really weird between the lips for me!! although i think that i used to do it like that but for doublin and triplin behind the teeth seems easier!?

    welconme to tMP
     
  8. Seedhouse

    Seedhouse Active Member

    Definately keep it behind the teeth, it should make your whole playing life a whole lot easier!!! It should sound much cleaner I think- but i've never tried the near the lips thing, just sounds weird! :?
     
  9. iggmeister

    iggmeister Member

    On the tonguing thing, I cant see how you can really develop if you put the tongue behind the lips. As has already been said, double and tripling would be awkward given the extra distance the tongue has to travel.

    Igg
     
  10. floral_dance

    floral_dance Member

    behind the teeth, easier for double and triple tongueing(spelling)
     
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  12. Keppler

    Keppler Moderator Staff Member

    Behind the teeth - however, I do understand you, as I was originally shown the between the teeth method too.. Takes some work to move the action back behind, but it helps in the long run.
    Work on double tongue excercises to help you find the most comfortable position..
     
  13. Emb_Enh

    Emb_Enh Member

    When I first started playing, I was tought to "tongue" a note with the tongue between the lips (as if spitting out a tomato pip).
    Although some books advocate this method - most state the tongue should be placed behind the top teeth. I can now produce notes using both methods, but must admit that it is much more comfortable using the "between the lips" method.
    Your views would be appreciated.

    ============================================

    There MANY ways to tongue depending on:

    1. What register you are playing in..[the higher notes you play, the higher the tongue strikes up the top teeth / the lower - the lower

    2. The length of your tongue...

    3. The effect/attack you want to have musically..

    There IS no one way to tongue, as we're all different physiologically speaking.

    As a general rule >>>

    Tonguing between the lips is NEVER acceptable as it interferes with the aperture and control/intonation then becomes an issue.

    How do I tongue and achieve?....

    An accent? -- Speed of syllable/tongue release
    A legato tongue? -- Doh Goh
    Staccato? - Tut / Dut
    What's the tempo? - Matters not!
    What register? - Matters not!
    What volume level? Matters not!
    What style of music? -- Attack/syllable/Phrasing orientated

    It would be absurd for anyone to claim that "THAT'S how I tongue"
    [one way]

    ...they don't. --- It changes ALL the time depending on the variables!

    Or if it doesn't, they're going to have a VERY mechanical style of playing.

    :lol:
     
  14. lynchie

    lynchie Active Member

    I'm probably not the best person to give advice on this (I ignored all this tonguing malarky for the first 3 or 4 years I played!) but I tongue behind my teeth, mainly because it's easier, and also it seems to be quicker and give a better note production. I seem to remember being told that spitting a pip out thing when I started and I spent a while sticking my tongue down my mouthpiece before I gave up completely!!!
     
  15. timbloke

    timbloke Member

    Interesting you should say that. I was never taught tounging, and know quite a few tromb players who never really learnt tounging, just developed it. In fact a good freind of a few years back claimed she never tounged when playing, and she was a pretty good player (grade 8+) unfortunately double and triple breath attacking doesn't really work!!
     
  16. Mike Saville

    Mike Saville Member

    I'm amazed that anyone teaches this method these days!!!!!! :shock:

    Every teacher of note that I have had (and I've been taught by many of the top pros in London) has always said that it is incorrect to toungue between the teeth.
     
  17. Emb_Enh

    Emb_Enh Member

    There MANY ways to tongue depending on:

    What register/style you are playing in..

    the higher notes you play, the higher the tongue strikes up [behind] the top teeth / the lower - the lower

    The above statement has the tongue BEHIND the top teeth.

    There IS no one way to tongue, as we're all different physiologically speaking.

    Tonguing between the teeth is useful for a percussive attack. [used in big band jazz]

    I never said to tongue between the teeth at all times.

    ummm... I also played as a full time pro in London, Ex West End Theatre pro.

    Pro's who play many styles learn to play many ways...otherwise you sound the same for all styles... :wink:
     
  18. Well the answer seems pretty unanimous.....behind the teeth. I think I knew that all along, but was hanging onto the folorn hope that someone might know a fantastic player who did the tonguing between the lips.

    Having played the "wrong way" for 38 years - it really is like learning to walk again!

    Whatever - thank you all for your help.
     
  19. super_sop

    super_sop Supporting Member

    This has been very helpfull, aspesially the last few posts from Emb_Enh.
    i have noticed that the lower i play, the lowerer my tongue action is.
    the higher the notes, the higher the tongue action. so maybe i havent done so bad after all!!

    The other problem i have had is never (apart from about 5 lessons prior to my grade 5) having lessons. once i had moved from a begginers class at Porthywaen and into the junior band. it was more a case of pick it up as you go along.

    Thats one of the greatest things about this forum, there are plenty of people on here, from pros all the way down to learners. people who can pass on information for those of us who havent had or wont be able to have lessons.
    many thanx

    keep it up guys :lol:
     
  20. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    We have received several complaints regarding the content of some of the posts within this thread.
    Rather than lock the thread completely, we have deleted all the 'suggestive' comments which were made.
    Please remember that this is a family forum, and we do have 'junior' members regularly reading the forum, so please give careful consideration before you post 'suggestive' comments.

    Thank you for your co-operation.

    Roger (Moderator)


    :wink:
     

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