Add a 5th Section?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by BigD, Nov 18, 2003.


Do we need a fifth section?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  1. BigD

    BigD Member

    It seems to me that there is a need for a fifth or 'development' section to be added to the current setup.
    In scotland it has beed done with success at a few local contests.
    I can think of at least 5 bands in my local area who would like to contest but they are percieved to be not good enough for the fourth section. Maybe the rules could be less strict or it could be an own choice contest, but would it not be good to encourage these bands to compete at their own level?
    School bands could take part as well.
    Promotion to the fourth section would let them know they were ready for it.

    Not thought it out fully but they are missing out on a big part of what brass bands are all about.

    Views? :D
  2. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    IMHO its hard enough for bands to get out of the lower sections as it is without adding another "lower rung". In our local contests, there doesn't seem to be a 4th section anymore, so I can't see how it would change anything.

    If bands are perceived to be "not good enough" to compete in 4th section, they could challenge (or confirm!) that by entering a contest in the 4th section and seeing what happens...

    Several years ago SCABA ran a "Stars of Tomorrow" contest for "5th section" bands which was fantastic and gave several bands and individuals a chance to experience contesting. Unfortunately I don't know wether any of those bands now compete in the "regular" sections.
  3. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    In a sense there is already a fifth section, made up of bands which are unregistered or which for whatever reason choose not to enter the National Championships, so are classified as 'ungraded'.

    YHBBA contests often include classes for ungraded bands, as do many other local associations.

    Many are simply 'non-contesting' so for them the introduction of a fifth section would serve little purpose.

    In some regions where there is an abundance of 4th section bands it might be advantageous to divide the fourth section into two for the Regional Contest, but in Yorkshire this is certainly not the case.

  4. BigD

    BigD Member

    So why are you against it?
  5. Di

    Di Active Member

    How about the re-introduction of a youth section to the areas?
  6. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    I was gonna say exactly the same thing
  7. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Stars of tomorrow was a specific contest for "ungraded" bands, completely seperate from regular contests or the regionals and served a specific purpose. I'm not against that at all! It was however completely different from adding another, lower section to the regionals etc. and I've already explained my reasons why I don't think a 5th section per se is a good idea.
  8. stephen2001

    stephen2001 Member

    I think that it is more a case of just moving some of the borders for the areas.
    The Midland's have a massive lower section contingent which I really think needs to be streamlined as how can an adjudicator fairly sort out the minor positions when he has 18-19 unique performances to consider? There are other sections which are very short of numbers so as in another thread, it is very easy for two or three bands to yo-yo up and down?
    I think that that would be better way of evening the spread among the areas.
  9. aimee_euph

    aimee_euph Member

    There's the National Youth Brass Band Championships
  10. Railybobs

    Railybobs Member

    sorry, i don't think so.

    We'll end up like the football leagues with tons of pie and pea leagues that no-one evr thought existed.
  11. BigD

    BigD Member

    Pie and Peas!

    Sounds good to me!
  12. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    technically, as it's a national grading, it should be the same standard across the country, meaning that if the standard is higher in yorkshire in general (I'm not saying it is) then there would automatically be more championship section bands in yorkshire, and less elsewhere. However I don't think this is strictly the case, or rather what people believe it is, from the discussion so far.
  13. Maybe I have got this wrong, but I certainly get the impression that some of the posters on tMP think that bands that don't compete arn't any good.

    There are so many bands around, that really don't want to get caught up in the hassle of competing. They exist to play music to the best of their ability, and do just that.

    Some of the best bands do just that - play music to a high standard; don't have to worry about fund raising for coaches and entrance fees.........

    There seems to be two sides to the banding world.....those that compete and those that don't.

    As it happens I play in two bands - one that does, and one that doesn't. I certainly could never be able to say that the non competing band is worse, in fact its better. Packed full of good players.

    The non competing band has a full calander of bookings - concerts. We play to the public, not just other banders.

    I hope that I havn't sounded too harsh here - just trying to put the "other" viewpoint.
  14. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    doesn't sound harsh to me, but the topic is about 'adding' a fifth section, not the relative standard of non-competing bands, SA bands are just one example of some good bands who don't compete, I know there are many more.

    however, with reference to your comment about tmpers not thinking much of non-competing bands, I can see exactly where you are coming from, but in this thread, the bands referred to are bands who wish to compete, but fear they are not of a high enough standard to compete at competitions.
  15. Point taken......and I apologise - posted off topic.
  16. Heather

    Heather Member

    I think the idea of including a Youth Section is a very good one but apart from that I don't think it would be a good idea to add a 5th section.
    There will always be a group of Bands much better than the others in their section and I suppose we just have to live with it and try to beat them!
    I don't think adding another section would solve the problem and before we knew it we would be thinking about adding a 6th section!
  17. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    I agree with Heather on this. It would be a good idea to have a nationally or locally organised you section to allow youth and school bands to experience competition.

    However, if you introduce a 5th section then I suspect those in it will be treated with contempt by those contesting banders who already consider the lower section bands (i.e. less than championship) as inferior.

    It would probably end up in the same league (pardon the pun :) ) as Sunday league football.

    So I voted no.
  18. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    In the NABBA contests, there is an "Explorer" section. This is an open section where the bands are given marks and comments by the adjudicators but are not competing with each other. Of course, the NABBA contest is small compared to the British contests, and most years only one or two bands participate in this level. It allows startup and youth bands to determine where they are relative to others, and gain experience performing under contest conditions, which are quite different from normal concert conditions.
  19. flugelgal

    flugelgal Active Member

    That's a really good idea!
  20. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Superb Idea, which the British/english brass band world might consider. I'm sure there would be quite a number of youth bands that would enter if they didn't feel up to going up against 4th section bands. It would, IMHO give them an incentive to grow and develop.

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