A wind-up - apparently not!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Roger Thorne, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

  2. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Just remember that when you warm up that you're breaking the law if you play without submitting your PRS return :rolleyes:
  3. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    Similar to what we are talking about in the short scores thread, will get a link soon.
  4. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    Lol turns out i don't know how, someone else do it.
  5. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

  6. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I can see it now ... all instruments at contest tradestands with bunged leadpipes to stop banders having a blow! Signs saying whether retailers are licenced or not for trying them out.
  7. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Nah, that shouldn't be necessary. The venues would have to have some sort of performance licence anyway.
  8. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    so, if my warm ups are actually my own compositions, and I am not a PRS member, would a licence be required? :wink:
  9. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    PERFORMING RIGHTS: An owner of a copyright has many Exclusive Rights, including the right to perform his or her own song (the Musical Composition) in public. These rights are known as "performing rights," and other users need Permission of the Copyright Owner to play the song on the radio or television, or in clubs, concerts, and amusement parks. Usually, the user is charged a fee called a Royalty. To make this easier, organizations called "performing rights societies" help control and collect the royalties paid for these performances on behalf of the songwriter or other copyright owners.

  10. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    Blimey... that's a bit OTT... no, that is *really* OTT.......... Must be despirate for money or something :rolleyes:
  11. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    There's been a large discussion recently about registered and unregistered users of the PRS and MCPS. If you're registered, sometimes you're even required to pay them even when you (or your Company) own the rights to something so they can pay you back!! I have a feeling this is more applicable to the various MCPS licences.

    Nothing I've done so far had involved the PRS (by my application anyway) - so it's all 3rd party information and should be taken with a pinch :wink:
  12. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    That probably only covers the Auditorium or Hall - just don't sing in the bar afterwards.
  13. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    The PRS though can only pay out to its members - and that is not a cheap option for composers who have little output that is actually performed.

    I will, as usual, be breaking this law on Saturday along with 36,000 others as I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles is still in copyright, and is always sung in an unauthorised arrangement that manages to change key halfway through. It also contravenes the music licencing laws as it will no doubt be sung in the bar too by more than 3 people.
    However, if I am caught singing it by SKY cameras and it is subsequently broadcast, I will of course put in a claim as a performer via PAMRA. Twice if MOTD also picks it up. (which they tend to do being the class club the WHU is these days).
    Don't anyone tell the MU though as I will be performing at well below the rate! ;)
  14. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    and that's probably hit the nail on the head - take out a test case on a small music shop then take the result to all the other (and bigger shops) in the country. Xno shops X rateable value = lots of extra cash.

    Does hitting nails on the head come under the percussion section? and would you also need a licence for that?

    Perhaps the guy should ask any prospective purchasers to try the instruments outside - but then would they need a licence from the council for busking?
  15. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Isn't music brilliant :D
  16. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Would the logical extension of this be that if people outside your house can hear you practising, then that's a public performance and therefore you need a licence?

    That'd be great come rehearsal, too, when the conductor asks who's been practicing, everyone goes "yes" and then he says "alright then, let's see your licence......."

    Instead of persecting legitimate businesses, why don't they make it law that any car stereo emitting over a certain noise level ( say that made by a bumblebee breaking wind at 5 feet) should have to have a public entertainments licence, on a sliding scale of cost according to the volume?

    Should put paid to all the little boys in their Saxo shopping trolleys on Mummy's insurance....and knock a bit off my council tax. Win-win!
  17. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    Why? What rate would Manchester United charge for singing 'I'm forever blowing bubbles' ???
  18. timbloke

    timbloke Member

    What about the chap upstairs who regularly whistles marches and the like whilst walking around the office. Does our office need a licence?

    I think the PRS ought to be careful, by taking this as far as they have they risk people losing all respect for them and being less likely to "own up" about other issues that may have more impact on copyright issues.
  19. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    I suppose to be fair to them, most of them would know it quite well as they all come from down here! The M3 is a devil when MU are playing at home. ;)
  20. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    As an ex employee of the PRS for 18 years.... I'm flabbergasted. Firstly, I didn't know the 'licensing laws' extended to music shops where the only from of music making are potential customers trying out instruments! Blimey! (Maybe it's a recent 'innovation'?) Secondly, I really find it hard to fathom that they can be charged by the PRS for this. Whilst I understand (as an arranger and self publisher hoping to one day earn some royalties from PRS) the need for music creators to have their rights protected, I think this is going too far.

    Thirdly, if all that is done when trying out instruments are self designed warm-ups or quotes from non copyright pieces of music etc. then perhaps that's the way round this, silly though it may sound. After all, how can PRS prove otherwise if they send their hit squad out there? I mean if someone tries out a piccolo trumpet, say, and the 'recognisable quote' is from Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 played from memory, then no one can prove that it came from a 'copyright arrangement or edition' can they?

    Much as I don't really wish to diss my ex employees, they've done themselves no favours in this particular instance.