4th valves

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Dave1, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. Dave1

    Dave1 Member

    Hi All
    I used to have a bit of paper with every conceivable permutation and alternate fingering using the 4th valve.
    Does anyone have one they could email me please.

    Dave
     
  2. Al

    Al Member

    Probably best if you just sat down and thought about it yourself for a few minutes. That way you would get to understand and remember what the 4th valve is and what it can (and cannot) do for you.
     
  3. Frontman

    Frontman Member

  4. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Thing is, that doesn't give all possible combinations. It misses out all the 'false fingerings' Dave is probaby after. Does anyone know if there is a list of these? I'm interested because my 2nd valve seems to fill up very regularly and I use a lot of ff to keep that valve from filling up too soon on a cold day! ;-)
     
  5. Frontman

    Frontman Member

    I must admit Mike, I don't ever remember seeing one with all the false fingering on.

    I can suggest that every note that you play on valves 1 & 2 can be played on Valve 3 instead.

    I am sure that others will add to the list as this thread progresses.
     
  6. John_D

    John_D Member

    There is a list in Trevor Walmsley's book 'You and Your Band' as I remember. I know I have a copy somewhere (or at least did have) but no idea where it is now.
     
  7. matt_BBb_bass

    matt_BBb_bass Member

    I have a version of steve sykes false finging all the different notes you can play on 4th etc! Il dig it out and send it to you!
     
  8. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    It's a shame the 4th valve tuning slide won't drop a semitone, that'd open up a whole new set of combinations, particularly useful when in sharp keys....
     
  9. Highams

    Highams Member

    see pm.

    CB
     
  10. iancwilx

    iancwilx Active Member

    Just out of curiosity, could you send it to me as well please Charlie ?
    I must have used all the combos over the years, but I'm always willing to learn !

    - Ian W.
     
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  12. Highams

    Highams Member

    No problem,

    CB
     
  13. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Warning! This link is for an uncompensated euphonium. And has a few errors too.

    I'm in a geeky mood. So here's a list for a 4V compensated instrument...

    Double pedal C - fake on 2
    C# 1234
    D 134
    D# 234
    E 124 / 34
    F 14
    F# 24 / 123 (sharp)
    G 4 / 13 (sharp)
    G# 23
    A 12 / 3
    Bb 1
    B 2
    Pedal C 0
    C# 1234 (sharp)
    D 134
    D# 234
    E 124 / 34
    F 14
    F# 24 / 123 (sharp)
    G 4 / 13 (sharp)
    G# 23 / 1234
    A 12 / 3 / 134
    Bb 1 / 234
    B 2 / 124 / 34
    Bottom C 0 / 14
    C# 24 / 123 (sharp) / 1234 (sharp)
    D 4 / 13 (sharp) / 134
    D# 23 / 234
    E 12 / 3 / 124 / 34
    F 1 / 14 / 1234
    F# 2 / 24 / 123 (sharp) / 134
    G 0 / 4 / 13 (sharp) / 234
    G# 23 / 124 / 34 / 1234 (sharp)
    A 12 / 3 / 14 / 134
    Bb 1 / 24 / 123 / 234
    B 2 / 4 / 13 / 124 / 34 / 1234
    Middle C 0 / 23 / 14 / 134
    C# 12 / 3 / 24 / 123 (sharp) / 234 (flat) / 1234 (sharp)
    D 1 / 4 / 13 (sharp) / 124 (flat) / 34 (flat) / 134
    D# 2 / 23 / 14 (flat) / 234 / 1234 (sharp)
    E 0 / 12 / 3 / 24 (flat) / 123 / 124 / 34 / 134
    F 1 / 4 (flat) / 13 (flat) / 14 / 234 / 1234
    F# 2 / 23 (flat) / 24 / 123 (sharp) / 124 / 34 / 134
    G 0 / 12 (flat) / 3 (flat) / 4 / 13 (sharp) / 14 / 234 / 1234 (flat)
    G# 23 / 1 (flat) / 24 / 123 (sharp) / 124 / 34 / 134 (flat) / 234 (sharp) / 1234 (sharp)
    A 12 / 3 / 2 (flat) / 4 / 13 (sharp) / 14 / 124 (sharp) / 34 (sharp) / 134 / 1234 (sharp)
    Bb 1 / 0 (flat) / 23 / 24 / 123 / 14 (sharp) / 234 / 134 (sharp)
    B 2 / 12 / 3 / 4 / 13 (sharp) / 24 (sharp) / 124 / 34 / 234 (sharp) / 1234
    High C 0 / 1 / 23 / 4 (sharp) / 13 (sharp) / 14 / 124 (sharp) / 34 (sharp) / 134 / 1234
    C# 2 / 12 / 3 / 23 (sharp) / 24 / 123 (sharp) / 14 (sharp) / 234 (flat) / 134 / 1234 (sharp)
    D 0 / 1 / 12 (sharp) / 3 (sharp) / 4 / 13 (sharp) / 24 (sharp) / 123 (sharp) / 124 (flat) / 34 (flat) / 234 / 134 / 1234 (sharp)
    D# 2 / 1 (sharp) / 23 / 4 (sharp) / 14 (flat) / 124 / 34 / 234 / 134 / 1234
    E 0 / 2 (sharp) / 12 / 3 / 23 (sharp) / 24 (flat) / 123 / 14 / 124 / 34 / 234 / 134 / 1234 (sharp)
    F 1 / 0 (sharp) / 12 (sharp) / 3 (sharp) / 4 (flat) / 13 (flat) / 24 / 123 / 14 / 124 / 34 / 234 / 134 / 1234
    F# 2 / 1 (sharp) / 23 (flat) / 4 / 13 / 24 / 123 (sharp) / 14 / 124 / 34 / 234 / 134 / 1234
    G 0 / 2 (sharp) / 12 (flat) / 3 (flat) / 23 / 4 / 13 (sharp) / 24 / 123 (sharp) / 124 / 34 / 234 / 134 / 1234

    But the higher you go, the less likely things are to be mathematically perfect - you need to experiment with your instrument to test which alternatives work for you.
    The other moral is that above high C, you can play most notes on most fingerings...
     
  14. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Thanks Dave, that's very helpful.
     
  15. tubbytuba

    tubbytuba Member

    $th Valve!!

    Matt any chance you can get that list to me as well!!! Ta
     
  16. I have a Besson "Prototype" euphonium that does have a fifth valve, lowering the pitch 1/2 step. This is not compensating, so the valve is primarily for controlling intonation in the low range, however it does simplify some fingering combinations.

    Yamaha had a rotor valve installed in the main tuning slide that one could get aftermarket. but I don't know if this was continued, as I have not seen it in many years.
     
  17. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Member

     
  18. simonium

    simonium Member

    It's all on the list that MoominDave provided. :)
     
  19. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    But he's not at all famous so he must be wrong! He couldn't possibly have a clue about such things......:roll:

    BTW - for those devoid of insight this post lives under the heading "advanced sarcasm".
     
  20. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Wha...? MoominDave not famous? What planet are we on here, Di? :biggrin:
     
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