4BR rankings

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by yorkie19, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. yorkie19

    yorkie19 Active Member

    Is it me or is anyone else losing a little faith with the 4Barsrest rankings?

    They seem to have become increasingly volatile with one contest result making a big difference to a band's rankings. This should be the case lower down the rankings where there are very few points between bands but higher up the rankings, the movement should be less.

    However, it seems to me that there has been a significant amount of yo-yoing over the last few months, and I'm not convinced anymore that these really are accurate rankings.

    I don't subscribe to BBW, so I'm assuming they still prepare a ranking table. Just out of interest, does anyone have the latest edition, and if they do, what do their rankings look like?
  2. markyboy

    markyboy Member

    Having just read the new 4BR rankings, I must confess I do find them a bit strange.

    Just one point I would say (which affects the band I play for) is how can a band that has just gained fourth place in the Championship Section at Pontins drop 1 place? Surely that would at the very least keep us in the position that we were in or move us up 1 or 2 places seeing the points are so close around Pennine Brass' placing in the rankings.

    ...but having said that I would like to point out I really enjoy looking at 4BR and thank them for the efforts they put in.

    I'm just puzzled over the rankings, not knocking the website!

    Cheers, Mark
  3. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    I dunno! They're rubbish! We went down 28 places!
  4. dyl

    dyl Active Member

    The fact that they have Point of Ayr listed at #130 - and have been in there since their rankings started makes a mockery of the whole thing for me. When was the last time they competed at a contest? Worse - I think a month or two or go, they even went up in the rankings! Mad!
  5. Heppy

    Heppy Member

    I think that they are a load of rubbish along with the rest of the website, a total sham. It doesn't help playing with a ranking obsessed band though!!!
  6. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Hmmm.... not quite sure how you can say that Heppy? They provide an excellent service with news and info, reports and results et al. Not sure I agree with that comment.

    Shoot me down by all means ...
  7. JR

    JR Member

    I find it a bit odd that for a "world ranking" list the only foreign band in the top 20 is Willebroek - surely Stavanger/Eikanger at least, and several others, 13 Etoiles?, Dalewool Auckland? Woolston? would have a claim.
    If we are to publish a world, or euro ranking list - and take it seriously - the next step should be a minimum of a Euro-Wide registry (world-wide would be better but harder to enforce) this would prevent the increasing preponderence of ringers appearing as guest players , and on certain occasions e.g. British Open 2004 and NZ Championships 2005 winning the soloist's prize.

    john r
  8. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    I'm not going to knock 4br, but as I've said many times on this forum, I think the idea of a rankings table at all for brass bands is daft and, rather like the bands at the very bottom of the table, pointless.
  9. Heppy

    Heppy Member

    Without wishing to go 'off-topic', my main gripe is with rankings and contest reports/retrospectives. I find their retrospectives quite harsh and unconstructive at times, boardering on drunken pub talk. After reading some of their comments you cant help but feel 'who the **** are you to comment on a bands performance'.

    As for rankings, absolutely pointless. The bloke that compiles them may aswell stop ranking over brass bands and get a job.
  10. MickM

    MickM Member

    Totally agree with you on this one Dyl. It puzzeled me too! I'd love to hear the explanation on this one, not that i've got anything against Point of Ayr, it just doesn't make sense :confused:
  11. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - same goes for Midden Brabant band from Belgium. I'm sure they disbanded a year or two ago! They are still ranked 136th.
  12. MickM

    MickM Member

    My other half plays for United Co-oP Milnrow who are Currently 1st section. They competed in the championship section at Pontins and came a very creditable 7th, and for their trouble they go down 6 places. How disheartening when there's a band from Switzerland staight in at no.72 ????????????
  13. B'aht a band

    B'aht a band Member

    Maybe we should cobble together a half-decent band from all Tmp users, compete in 2 or else 3 contests and then disband, see how long we stay in the "All-Star-Super-Duper-My-Band's-Better-Than-Your-Band" Top 200. Completely pointless, like a dog that talks Danish......

    (Yes I do know there is a Tmp band, but you know what I mean)

    Andy, been up too long
  14. B'aht a band

    B'aht a band Member

    Totally agree John, it was like the area contests being held in Wellington with all the familiar faces.... NZ Championships soloist prize? Now I wonder who that could've been????? ;)

  15. postie

    postie Member

    I think a little more explanation into how the rankings are put together would be very useful. It isn't just Point of Ayr though Marple are still in the rankings as well.
  16. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    their last concert was almost 2 years ago...
  17. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    I knew St Keverne was the most southern band but according to the rankings they've moved to New Zealand :confused:
  18. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Particularly when it comes to the international rankings, the fact is that the bands in contention simply do not play each other often enough for any rankings system to make any sense. If they are going to persist with tables, I certainly think any band that is not competing should be dropped.
  19. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Well don't read them then. Don't forget 4BR is FREE, unlike the Bandsman or BBW and frankly it provides better coverage imho. If you don't like it, vote with your feet. Personally I find it quite refreshing that they are not afraid to speak as they find it, and if a performance is a bit pants they say so. I don't always agree with them, but that's banding for ya.

    Back at the topic... there are so many variables in contesting that providing accurate rankings simply cannot be possible. Ever. How can you compare (for example) Pontins which is open to everyone with an Area contest, or the Swiss Nationals (only open to certain bands)? How can you compare UK bands with Woolston, Willebroek, Treize Etoiles or BB Central Florida when they don't regularly play against each other? I don't really see the point. It's a bit like deciding the Champions league on domestic form without any of the top teams ever playing each other. However, I think they were only started as a bit of fun and as with most things in banding, people have got a bit obsessed with them.

    I've also thought it strange that Point and Marple are still in there, but on the other hand there are efforts to rebuild both bands at the moment and maybe both will storm back onto the contest scene in the next few months. It would probably make more sense if the ranking system only used contest results from the last 18 months so bands that don't contest drop out quickly but frankly, I couldn't be bothered to work it all out. Good luck to anyone that can!
  20. BoozyBTrom

    BoozyBTrom Member

    I agree with on the point of voting with your feet. I stopped reading 4BR months ago. My main gripe with them was that on their contest coverage on the live updates they would completely slag off a performance (not just my bands but others too) and if this performance got a good chalk from the adjudicators they would then write a glowing report of how fantastic it was in thier retrospective. Come on boys state your opinion and stick to it. Live by the sword die by the sword lads.

    Back to the rankings though. I personally thought when they started that they were a bit of fun and something to have a chat about in the pub after a rehearsal, and up until a short while ago thats how they were. But now we have a situation where a contest uses these rankings to select which bands will enter. This to me is getting a little too serious. If these rankings are to be used as a selection process perhaps its got to the point that they should be compiled by a professional company who specialise in that sort of thing, not by some guy as a hobby.

    Whinge over.

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